Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:55 28 Mar 2024
* Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
* How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Formal end to carrying coffins by BR (link)

Train RunningCancelled
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
09:46 Westbury to Swindon
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:38 Weymouth to Gloucester
07:33 Weymouth to Gloucester
08:38 London Paddington to Westbury
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 09:13 Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 09:59:24 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[193] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[109] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[75] Return of the BRUTE?
[59] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[46] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[26] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 18
  Print  
Author Topic: More dangerous overcrowding to the Westcountry  (Read 87421 times)
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #120 on: June 03, 2018, 12:09:26 »

I too only read the first bit, and was put off by the irrelevant picture which looks like a SWT (South West Trains) unit, perhaps at Clapham Junction, and is not at Paddington nor of a GWR (Great Western Railway) train.

And anyway, as we all know, overcrowding is not dangerous !
And it is the customers fault for choosing to make a presumably leisure trip on a holiday weekend.
And for choosing to get on a busy train!

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #121 on: June 03, 2018, 13:44:14 »

More reports like this could lead to compulsory reservations and/or boarding controls.
Logged
phile
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1382

Language spoken Welsh as well as English


View Profile Email
« Reply #122 on: June 03, 2018, 15:17:59 »

More reports like this could lead to compulsory reservations and/or boarding controls.

I doubt it.  If they didn't have walk on fares they would lose money.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #123 on: June 03, 2018, 16:33:04 »

More reports like this could lead to compulsory reservations and/or boarding controls.

I doubt it.  If they didn't have walk on fares they would lose money.

I cant agree with any proposal to ban the sale of walk on fares, or with any similar proposal to restrict the use of such tickets.
I have previously suggested that sales of discounted tickets should be restricted or eliminated for very busy trains.
The original idea of these discounted advance tickets was to fill seats that would otherwise go unused. NOT to make overcrowded trains even worse.

It would be very odd to ban or restrict use of the most expensive tickets, so as to give more room for holders of discounted tickets.
If very busy trains were "full fare only" that would either greatly reduce crowding, or perhaps greatly increase revenue.
Any significant increase in revenue could be spent on some more trains.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #124 on: June 03, 2018, 17:14:57 »

I was of course being a bit provocative, although many countries do run their longer distance services requiring reservations, or quotas for particular types of customer, or boarding queues. Or indeed by charging a premium fare.

However, it is clear at every peak getaway time that a significant number of people believe that if booking online that's they select a particular departure time, even if they do not get a seat reservation (*) they have still in some manner secured a seat somewhere on that service and if they don't get one it is because it is 'overbooked'.

The only explanation I can think for this is that they believe it works like an airline, where they might get a specific seat reservation free, or paid for, but if they don't it is allocated or found on the day.

(*) the reservation may of course not be honoured by failing to be displayed on the train, or someone refusing to move from it, or being physically unable to get to it.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9809



View Profile
« Reply #125 on: July 24, 2018, 10:54:17 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Spotlight ran a report last night on an unspecified train from Paddington to Plymouth yesterday which was overcrowded to the extent that some children were allowed to sit in the crew room next to the buffet.

Seems the train had no reservations (I assume because the train arrived late into Paddington to form the journey) and had at least one coach with no aircon and was formed of 2+7 rather than the usual 2+8.

GWR (Great Western Railway) were quoted as saying anyone who had a seat reservation but wasn't able to claim it will be able to claim a full refund.

I note today's 12:30 from Paddington to the West of England (via Bristol due to the engineering works on the Berks & Hants) will run fast between Reading and Bristol Temple Meads with a relief train for intermediate stations leaving London three minutes behind it.
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #126 on: July 24, 2018, 10:57:02 »

I note today's 12:30 from Paddington to the West of England (via Bristol due to the engineering works on the Berks & Hants) will run fast between Reading and Bristol Temple Meads with a relief train for intermediate stations leaving London three minutes behind it.
I noticed this too and applaud GWR (Great Western Railway) for doing this. Not often you see relief trains running these days. Why they decided to merge two trains into one in the first place when it's a long distance WofE train I don't know.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9809



View Profile
« Reply #127 on: July 25, 2018, 04:31:04 »

I note today's 12:30 from Paddington to the West of England (via Bristol due to the engineering works on the Berks & Hants) will run fast between Reading and Bristol Temple Meads with a relief train for intermediate stations leaving London three minutes behind it.
I noticed this too and applaud GWR (Great Western Railway) for doing this. Not often you see relief trains running these days. Why they decided to merge two trains into one in the first place when it's a long distance WofE train I don't know.

Looking at Real Time Trains it seems that relief train is going to run for the rest of this week.
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #128 on: July 25, 2018, 06:02:37 »

That doesn’t surprise me, after all on a normal running week it would be. GWR (Great Western Railway) trying to save money running one train instead of two. You may get away with it in winter but not in the middle of summer.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9809



View Profile
« Reply #129 on: July 25, 2018, 12:54:15 »

You can't have it all - today's relief train has no catering.  Grin
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #130 on: July 25, 2018, 13:45:12 »

Here's the article:

Quote

It was the worst train journey I have ever been on. And I say that as one who travelled in a sleeper carriage from Delhi to Ahmedabad some years ago and woke in the middle of the night to find my feet being fiddled with by a strange man.

It was the 14.03 from London to Penzance on the Friday of the bank holiday. Having a ticket but no seat, I ambled along the platform at Paddington looking for the unreserved carriage. It was around then I realised that people were running past me as they do in disaster movies, an ash cloud or spacecraft about to overshadow them. One woman overtook at a gallop, a small boy bouncing behind her like a toy dog on a string.

I reached the unreserved carriage and found it was already full, so turned back to see a great tsunami of travellers bearing down on me. They did not look overjoyed to be heading to Cornwall on their bank holiday. They looked like they were being sent to war, so I decided to hop on to the nearest carriage and sit on the floor.

I’ve done that on journeys across Britain before, it’s not so bad. Galling when you’ve re-mortgaged to afford the ticket in the first place, but mustn’t grumble and all that.

I couldn’t sit down, however, because the gap between the carriages – and all the other carriages, it turned out – was already full of standing travellers. I squeezed into one of them muttering apologies and watched as others continued to sprint up and down the platform. Several families simply couldn’t fit, and stood there forlornly after the guards rammed the doors closed and the train heaved its way out of the station.

We were a tight bunch in that space, packed like breadsticks, and British camaraderie immediately burst forth. One woman passed round her meze platter from M&S (I’m not sure the garlic helped, to be honest); another man produced a bottle of wine and offered to share it from his plastic cup as if administering Holy Communion.

At Reading, violence broke out when a bully in a white shirt insisted he was getting on “or else” and rammed his suitcase into our space. This struck my left foot and I’m sorry to say I swore so loudly that the man with the wine shouted, “DON’T HURT WOMEN”. Genuinely, it was a farcical scene. I got off at Exeter, so only suffered a mere two hours shifting weight from one foot to another, but the poor lady millimetres from my own face was doing the full five or so hours to Penzance.

Why are train companies allowed to oversell tickets like this? A public consultation into fares has just been announced to make ticketing less complicated, but the railways need more of a shake-up. Why can’t there be a centralised system that prevents ticket sales once a certain number has been reached? I just about made it thanks to a couple of olives and a sip of warm sauvignon blanc, but they cannot always be guaranteed.

The writer's questions in the last paragraph are answered by her statement in the second. She turned up with a walk-up ticket. The TOC (Train Operating Company) has no idea what service she will use unless she reserves a seat. For as many of those who demand 'Reservation Only' trains, there's an equal amount who will decry the loss of a turn up and go railway.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #131 on: July 25, 2018, 14:41:20 »

That's the choice you make when not reserving a seat and hoping for the best.

I do remember towards the end of Intercity on busy weekends/holidays, services to the West of England boarding cards were issued to ensure everyone got a seat. Once these were handed out the service was classed as full and you couldn't board. I guess the system didn't work very well as it was dropped at privatization.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #132 on: July 25, 2018, 15:06:35 »

I am a strong believer in the principle of a walk up railway with no requirement to book.
As I have previously stated, I believe that sales of discounted advance tickets should be limited or even eliminated for services that are expected to be overcrowded.

I see no merit in the sale of discounted tickets when this results in the scenes described.

And as for the advice to book a seat, I very much doubt that so doing would have helped in the situation described.
At least twice I have booked a seat and found it taken by someone else who simply refused to move. On one journey the on board staff felt unable to intervene, on the other occasion I saw no staff.
Being reluctant to give the usurper a good thump, I had to stand to Taunton. And that was in first class, cattle class was presumably even worse.

On another occasion when I DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) get my reserved seat, I was asked very firmly by the train manager to give it up  in order that a mother and baby could sit. Splendid value for over £150 to Taunton.
I was refused any refund for having to stand with a first class ticket.

Whilst most of my FGW (First Great Western)/GWR (Great Western Railway) trips go very much better than that, this is only because I avoid days when the railway can not cope.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a single 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) turns up for a popular Penzance service !
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40687



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #133 on: July 25, 2018, 15:12:40 »

The writer's questions in the last paragraph are answered by her statement in the second. he turned up with a walk-up ticket. The TOC (Train Operating Company) has no idea what service she will use unless she reserves a seat. For as many of those who demand 'Reservation Only' trains, there's an equal amount who will decry the loss of a turn up and go railway.

Totally agree.

Those who require a seat on a specific train can reserve one.  Those who require the flexibility of an open ticket can also have it, often paying a little more for the privilege than they would for a train-specific advanced ticket on the same train.

Many of us find it quite impossible to know when a meeting / appointment / task will finish and for us a "must reserve" system would be a nightmare.  I have seen (and shuddered in sympathy) with passengers travelling with cycles who have been bumped (cancelled) off a TransWilts service, and who have then had to visit the ticket office to get a cycle reservation for the following train, because it's a 125 via Bath Spa.  Just imagine such a system if it wasn't just the cyclists, but all the passengers bumped!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #134 on: July 25, 2018, 15:20:28 »

There were certainly 'Reservations Compulsory' trains in the BR (British Rail(ways)) era and into the early years of privatisation. The printed timetable symbol, a boxed, black capital 'R' on a white background, is still listed in the printed National Rail Timetable. See attached.

Of course, the privatised TOCs (Train Operating Company) are far more concerned about maximising revenue, overcrowding helps the bottom line. This is one area where British Rail were more customer focused than revenue focused.

Should such 'Reservation Compulsory' trains be brought back? Perhaps in GWR (Great Western Railway) land it shouldn't be blanket for a train's entire journey. London/Reading to Taunton/Exeter/Newton Abbot/Plymouth/stations in Cornwall and vice versa. The train still being accessible to those making intermediate journeys such as Taunton - Plymouth, Exeter-Truro. Those travelling furthest are less likely to be travelling on the hoof so have to reserve and are guaranteed a seat. Make it a positive with an advertising campaign. Offer an incentive in the early days if the scheme. - free drink and snack voucher. Those travelling regionally take their chance on availability of a seat. Elderly and disabled excepted.


« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 15:26:26 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 18
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page