Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:15 28 Mar 2024
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
* Man held over stabbing in front of train passengers
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1992)
MOD Kineton tour, branch line society (*)

Train RunningCancelled
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
13:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:48 London Paddington to Carmarthen
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:12 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
12:42 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
12:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:07 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:26 Okehampton to Exeter Central
14:05 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
Delayed
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:29 Weymouth to Gloucester
11:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
12:27 Okehampton to Exeter Central
12:28 Plymouth to Gunnislake
12:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 13:28:38 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[151] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[85] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[58] Return of the BRUTE?
[49] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[46] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[36] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Cross Country direct award until October 2019  (Read 13678 times)
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« on: September 29, 2016, 11:49:44 »

VERY little in the way of any service/capacity improvements from the 'just do enough' franchise that is Cross Country.  Slight improvements in journey times through Staffordshire as a result of the Norton Bridge improvements, an extra 39000 seats a year along the Edinburgh to Plymouth route (which, according to maths from another forum equates to somewhere between 100-150 or so a day.  Wow!  Add in free wifi, a small amount of money (£20m) to tart up the trains a little and a couple of other minor bits and bobs, and that's yer lot!

Probably not surprising, but passengers will still no doubt be disappointed that their journeys will continue to get worse and worse for another three years before any extra trains and/or carriages are provided to relieve the overcrowding that occurs on such a high percentage of their trains.

More details:  https://www.gov.uk/government/news/better-journeys-for-passengers-on-the-cross-country-network
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
simonw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 589


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 13:40:36 »

So, from this we get

  • Worcester Parkway - No commitment, so are the government ignoring it, or assuming it will be late
  • Overcrowding - No commitment to seriously address this, 39K extra seats per year on the hourly service of Plymouth<->Edinburgh is a joke
  • Overcrowding - Extra trains/routes to better connect parts of the country

Not every long distance journey in this country has to centre on London (multi node) or Birmingham (single node). For example why not add in a Plymouth to Norwich?
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 15:02:48 »

The extra seats will be for the Mon-Fri peak across the core of XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s network between Leeds and Bristol. So it's not really a fair analysis to say there are only 100-150 extra seats a day. Those extra seats are to be targeted where they are most needed.

The extra capacity will come from more intensive use of XC's five HST (High Speed Train) sets and from creating 3x four car Voyagers from 2x five car, utilising two spare Class 22x driving cars. Those driving cars were put into store by Virgin when they converted all their West Coast Voyagers to five car.

The XC HST's are also to have power doors fitted. Presumably to the same design as the Chiltern Mk3 fleet.

WiFi will be free to all once the system is upgraded.

CrossCountry are also scrapping the £10 fee for making changes to Advance Purchase bookings.

This regular XC user is not disappointed by this direct award. There is no extra long distance rolling stock immediately available, so XC and the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) have come up with, I think, the best short term solution. Capacity will, I suspect, be addressed in the next ITT (Invitation to Tender). Of course it could have been addressed sooner by not giving a direct award, but that's a political decision most probably taken at the very top of the DfT. A decision for which CrossCountry aren't to blame.

Source: https://vimeo.com/184808769/cd57418360
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 15:10:37 »

Thanks for the detail, which I was struggling to find elsewhere.

I'm pleased to hear there will be more intensive use of the HST (High Speed Train)'s and the creation of the extra set makes sense. Though I do feel that a commitment to take on a few more HST's as they are released by other operators could have been a relatively easy way to increase capacity further, without tying any future operator into a long term commitment.
Logged
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 15:14:10 »

an extra 39000 seats a year along the Edinburgh to Plymouth route (which, according to maths from another forum equates to somewhere between 100-150 or so a day.  Wow! 


So that pretty much means one of the 4 carriage services is becoming 5 carriage
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 17:08:38 »

an extra 39000 seats a year along the Edinburgh to Plymouth route (which, according to maths from another forum equates to somewhere between 100-150 or so a day.  Wow! 


So that pretty much means one of the 4 carriage services is becoming 5 carriage

They end up with 3 x 4 cars in stead of 2 x 5 cars, is what I understand is happening; using the two spare driving cars from when VWC disbanded a four car set.

Paul
Logged
johnneyw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2257


From station to station, back to Bristol city....


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 12:04:40 »

This from the Bristol Evening Post online today.

http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/arriva-wins-contract-for-cross-country-train-route-through-bristol-and-promises-big-improvements/story-29766017-detail/story.html
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 12:30:39 »

This regular XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) user is not disappointed by this direct award. There is no extra long distance rolling stock immediately available, so XC and the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) have come up with, I think, the best short term solution. Capacity will, I suspect, be addressed in the next ITT (Invitation to Tender). Of course it could have been addressed sooner by not giving a direct award, but that's a political decision most probably taken at the very top of the DfT. A decision for which CrossCountry aren't to blame.

I certainly hope capacity will be addressed in the next ITT.  If that means a new order of trains, then it could be well over five years until the situation improved.

A shame that other avenues appear not to have been explored to get a bit of a headstart in that respect.  AIUI (as I understand it) there are 5 HST (High Speed Train) sets that will be retired by Grand Central (also operated by Arriva) next year when the GWR (Great Western Railway) 180s replace them.  Is there any reason (other than a bit of cash that the DfT wouldn't have otherwise received) why they could not have been taken and converted at the same time as their current fleet?  Those five sets could have released 5-car 221s to cover some 4-car 220s and in turn mean a couple more diagrams could have been operated by 8-car 220s.

Towards the end of the Direct Award there should also be the possibility of acquiring some of the modern, but surplus to requirements, 100mph Class 185 fleet that TransPennine Express will be offloading.  Weight permitting they could bolster the Cardiff-Nottingham or Birmingham-Stansted services allowing their 13 2-class 170s to run in multiple so that it would be the end of packed 2-car trains on those routes (and more 6-car services on their busiest trains).
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 16:27:05 »

Not every long distance journey in this country has to centre on London (multi node) or Birmingham (single node). For example why not add in a Plymouth to Norwich?

Bad example - single change in Birmingham or better with just two changes. For the number of pax making that journey, I reckon its sufficient. Alternatively via London with 1 change & likely not to be quicker on your 'direct' route.....
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 16:32:51 »

Thanks for the detail, which I was struggling to find elsewhere.

I'm pleased to hear there will be more intensive use of the HST (High Speed Train)'s and the creation of the extra set makes sense. Though I do feel that a commitment to take on a few more HST's as they are released by other operators could have been a relatively easy way to increase capacity further, without tying any future operator into a long term commitment.

I strongly suspect that there was too much possibility of something failing (delayed supply of IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) stock on GWR (Great Western Railway) as an example, which could delay release of HSTs and/or 180s to GCR» (Gloucester - next trains)) to definitively give XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) any HSTs from either GWR or GCR before this award completes in early 2019(?)
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 16:43:50 »

Pretty sure the 180s will definitely be going from GWR (Great Western Railway) to Grand Central next year.  The GWR HSTs (High Speed Train) are more likely to deviate a little from the original planned cascade.

https://www.grandcentralrail.com/about-us/news-press/%C2%A378m-investments-are-just-the-ticket/
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 16:53:29 »

Yes, you likely to be right, as the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) has little effect on an open-access operator. I also suspect that GCR» (Gloucester - next trains) will hang on to its HSTs (High Speed Train) too
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2016, 17:28:44 »

Yes, you likely to be right, as the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) has little effect on an open-access operator. I also suspect that GCR» (Gloucester - next trains) will hang on to its HSTs (High Speed Train) too

I'm rather less sure of that.   A track access application that they made a while ago definitely said that the addition of the 5 ex GW (Great Western) 180s would allow for "a uniform fleet", and avoid nugatory costs of fitting ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System.) to the HSTs, e.g:

Quote
The move to a uniform fleet allowing will allow more flexible deployment
o Improved SRTs from Class 180s, coupled with the flexibility on Access Rights afforded to Network Rail, will allow the development of more robust timetables
o A uniform fleet of Class 180s with better SRTs will fit better into a recast ECML (East Coast Main Line) timetable - particularly post IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.).
o This also reduces overall industry costs because the HSTs will not need to be fitted with ERTMS. 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/track%20access/2%20completed%20consultations/2013/2013.08.05%20grand%20central%20tac%20application%20-%20closed%202%20september%202013/gcformps17.pdf

They haven't had much success with new open access applications, they were turned down for Edinburgh Kings Cross (the service that First group had approved) so they then withdrew their application for services to various Lincolnshire coast destinations, as they didn't have a decent business case as an independent application.

I suspect they'd have too much rolling stock with the HSTs.

Paul
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2016, 22:32:51 »

CrossCountry aren't hanging about. Two of their Mk3s have today gone to Wabtec Rail in Doncaster for fitting of plug doors and controlled emission toilets.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2016, 23:26:06 »

Aren't they already controlled-emission toilets?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page