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Author Topic: public access defibrillators at stations  (Read 4801 times)
grahame
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« on: October 02, 2016, 05:50:21 am »

From Rail Techology Magazine - an article that's six months old, but starts to address a question I was asked last night and didn't know the answer to.   Let me quote selectively:

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When people suffer from a cardiac arrest in a public place – far from a hospital or in remote locations – their best, and often only, chance of survival can be a public access defibrillator (PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)). The small electronic device, simple to use and easily accessible, provides an electric shock that helps bring a victim’s heart rhythm back to normal.

These can be found in many public buildings and spaces, including shopping centres, gyms, town halls and, yes, even train stations. Shortly before RTM ((and RTFM) Read The Manual!) went to press, for example, Northern Rail had just rolled out more PADs across 13 of its 465 stations, adding to the 37 kits it has already installed in the past year.

In separate collaborations with two ambulance trusts, Northern has been introducing these life-saving kits across the stations where the majority of serious incidents occur – although according to Resuscitation Council (UK (United Kingdom)), any busy transport hub usually justifies a cardiac arrest risk rating of ‘moderate’ to ‘likely’.

Within my home town, installation of a network across the town has recently been completed:

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MELKSHAM’S newest defibrillator has been installed at Bowerhill Pavilion, bringing the £30,000+ network of lifesaving devices to all corners of the community.

The defibrillators cost around £2,600 each to install and maintain and there are now seven in the villages around Melksham, as well as six already in the town.

The devices mean anyone suffering a heart attack nearby can be treated quickly and have a much higher chance of survival than if waiting for an ambulance.

The defibrillators are installed at The Pilot, Bowerhill; Bowerhill Pavilion; The New Inn, Berryfield; The Water Meadow, Melksham; Shaw Village Hall; Whitley Reading Rooms; and St Barnabas Church, Beanacre. There are also six in Melksham at the fire station; Southern Electric on Spa Road; Jones Stores on Beanacre Road and Forest Road; the Assembly Hall; and the Riverside Club.

Are there defibrillators installed on GWR (Great Western Railway) trains or at stations? If so, is there any pattern in their availability?  Perhaps I've not been very observant, but I've not noticed either the machines or instructions on where to find them and how to access them ...
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JayMac
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 06:07:31 am »

I've seen them in various locations across the rail network.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 08:01:59 am »

I think I've them at Oxford & Reading. But I *think* unusable by public as access codes only known by staff. Those in public places are accessible by ringing a number for the access codes.

Bear in mind they're only really effective within the first few minutes of a cardiac arrest...so better than nothing but I'll be interested iin the annual stats of success/usage.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 11:32:43 am by ChrisB » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 08:40:35 am »

I think I've them at Oxford & Reading. But I *think* unusable by public as access codes only known by staff. Those in public places are accessiblrme by ringing a number for the access codes.

Bear in mind they're only really effective within the first few minutes of a cardiac arrest...so better than nothing but I'll be interested iin the annual stats of success/usage.

I'm building up a picture for the TransWilts (via a Facebook post) and I'm learning too.  Seems there might be public ones and trained-staff-only ones but I'm not informed enough to write with much certainty.

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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 08:58:11 am »

There were quite a number of the put up across the National network.   In a number of locations, even at London major stations, they got vandalised and even stolen
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 09:39:25 am »

There were quite a number of the put up across the National network.   In a number of locations, even at London major stations, they got vandalised and even stolen

Incredibly, one from inside the office I work in went missing a couple of years ago...
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 09:55:06 am »

There were quite a number of the put up across the National network.   In a number of locations, even at London major stations, they got vandalised and even stolen

Incredibly, one from inside the office I work in went missing a couple of years ago...

At the risk of lowering the serious tone of this... all I can say is  'shocking'!  Shocked
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 11:02:16 am »

I've read, but I can't remember where, that even when used by trained staff in a hospital they're not very effective – certainly less than 50%. Their main purpose in public places has been described as to make members of the public feel they're doing something useful and so stop them feeling guilty later, and also to keep them busy and so not doing anything that might make things worse until the ambulance turns up.
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ellendune
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 08:38:39 pm »

I've read, but I can't remember where, that even when used by trained staff in a hospital they're not very effective – certainly less than 50%. Their main purpose in public places has been described as to make members of the public feel they're doing something useful and so stop them feeling guilty later, and also to keep them busy and so not doing anything that might make things worse until the ambulance turns up.

Are you sure you are not talking about CPR?  Which is skilled.  The defibrillators found at stations and other places are automatic.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 09:04:38 pm »

I've read, but I can't remember where, that even when used by trained staff in a hospital they're not very effective – certainly less than 50%. Their main purpose in public places has been described as to make members of the public feel they're doing something useful and so stop them feeling guilty later, and also to keep them busy and so not doing anything that might make things worse until the ambulance turns up.

Are you sure you are not talking about CPR?  Which is skilled.  The defibrillators found at stations and other places are automatic.

Bmblbzzz is correct. The survival rates from either CPR or defibrillator use are surprisingly low - something like a third of patients requiring CPR or a defibrillator survive in a hospital, let alone in the great outdoors, as I recall from a first aid course some years ago, the instructor being a retired nurse. It's not at all like Casualty where someone receives a couple of shocks and suddenly splutters back to life.
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ellendune
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 09:09:09 pm »

Bmblbzzz is correct. The survival rates from either CPR or defibrillator use are surprisingly low - something like a third of patients requiring CPR or a defibrillator survive in a hospital, let alone in the great outdoors, as I recall from a first aid course some years ago, the instructor being a retired nurse. It's not at all like Casualty where someone receives a couple of shocks and suddenly splutters back to life.

Since defibrillation and CPR are the only available treatments I suppose you could look at it the other way.  Defibrillators can save half of people who have cardiac arrest.  Sounds like a good reason to have them to me. 
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 10:32:24 pm »

Less than half probably, but even so, a life saved is a saved life. Or several lives actually, once you take into account the other people affected. I was responding, vaguely, to ChrisB who wondered how effective they were upthread. However, better than nothing doesn't necessarily mean they're the best thing to do with £x to save lives – though it's possible they still might be that too, it would depend what the options were.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2016, 10:23:53 am »

As long as 1 life is saved, most would argue that the £2,500 for the unit is well-spent.

It's all those with a zero usage or life saved that is open to question which is why I expressed interest in the stats.
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grahame
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2019, 12:23:11 pm »

This thread is now nearly three years old.   Can anyone provide updates on where defibrillators are at GWR (Great Western Railway) (and other) stations and where they are not there, whether there's a database of ones nearby, or how to set about getting them sanctioned, funded and installed.
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2019, 07:27:09 pm »

This thread is now nearly three years old.   Can anyone provide updates on where defibrillators are at GWR (Great Western Railway) (and other) stations and where they are not there, whether there's a database of ones nearby, or how to set about getting them sanctioned, funded and installed.

There is a AED (Automated External Defibrillator) storage in every 80x in the middle car.  It looks the same as a fire extinguisher storage housing.  immediately behind the SST (Space Saver Toilet in a 5 car and behind the bike storage in a 9 car under the first seat).

The containers are empty.....
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