Train Operating Companies v Trade Unions dispute - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

It will be a challenge.  There must be very few drivers with route knowledge who do not work for Southern. 

[Noggin]

It will be a challenge.  There must be very few drivers with route knowledge who do not work for Southern. 

There was also the suggestion that Southern 'owned' the train path, so DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) could not allocate it on the basis that Southern wouldn't be using it that day.

On a different note, I've often wondered whether there was room in the market for 'club' trains like used to run on the LMS^▸ (London Midland Scottish - 1923 to 1948) - effectively gentleman's clubs on wheels run by committees of commuters.

[GBM]

It will be a challenge.  There must be very few drivers with route knowledge who do not work for Southern. 

Would not think any route knowledge driver from another area would cross a picket line anyway.  Could only be managers, etc, who would cross a dispute line.

[TaplowGreen]

It will be a challenge.  There must be very few drivers with route knowledge who do not work for Southern. 

Would not think any route knowledge driver from another area would cross a picket line anyway.  Could only be managers, etc, who would cross a dispute line.

Not really an issue for the Union though is it? Their action/protest is directed against the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), not a group of individuals who have chartered a train that has nothing to do with them.

It would be different if Southern were trying to charter trains to break the strike, but this has nothing to do with them surely?

[Tim]

It will be a challenge.  There must be very few drivers with route knowledge who do not work for Southern. 

Would not think any route knowledge driver from another area would cross a picket line anyway.  Could only be managers, etc, who would cross a dispute line.

Not really an issue for the Union though is it? Their action/protest is directed against the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), not a group of individuals who have chartered a train that has nothing to do with them.

It would be different if Southern were trying to charter trains to break the strike, but this has nothing to do with them surely?

I agree.  Plus this train will not carry many passengers in the big scheme of things but will get the headlines and increase pressure on the Government to sort out the mess at Southern. 

[chuffed]

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling writes to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and passengers on the Southern route ahead of planned strike action this week.

Dear Southern rail user,

Many of you have written to me in the past few days to ask what the government is doing to try to bring to an end the planned strike action on the network, and the ongoing work to rule that is disrupting services so much.

The first thing to explain is why this dispute is happening. The combined franchise, which includes Southern and Thameslink is currently going through a major programme of change that is designed to significantly increase capacity by the end of this decade. This has included the work at London Bridge and to expand capacity on the Thameslink route through London to a record level of 24 trains per hour. To do this requires significant use of new technology and new trains.

As a result, older trains are being phased out and replaced with a newer fleet which will include some of Britain’s most state of the art, automated trains. For a long time the majority of the trains on this network have been operated by the driver from the cab, normally without a guard on board. This hasn’t led to big drops in staff numbers – on the busier stations it has meant more staff on the platforms instead to help dispatch trains quicker. This is essential to trying to get a congested railway to run on time.

As the new trains are introduced, so more of the older trains that depend on a guard are removed. Rather than simply getting rid of the guard, though, the plan has been to create a new on-board supervisor role to provide better support for passengers. It is this change that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers), which represents the guards, has been fighting against – even though none of their members are losing their jobs or any money. In fact, there will be more on-board supervisors available on more trains than today.

This week’s strikes, though, are by the drivers’ union ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about), and are entirely politically motivated. ASLEF members will continue this week to drive Thameslink trains, which are driver only operated, on the same routes that their Southern members are boycotting. The independent rail safety inspector has said that these trains and the Southern approach, which mirrors what has happened on our railways for 30 years, is perfectly safe.

What has been most frustrating to everyone is that you are also experiencing routine problems on non-strike days too. The biggest factor behind this has been an ongoing and unofficial work to rule, with high levels of sickness, and a doubling of “broken down” trains whose faults cannot be replicated in the depot. However, there have also been too many failures of the Network Rail infrastructure, like signalling, and also very poor communication by the train company. These are things that also need to be sorted out. We have made a start on the infrastructure, but there is a long way to go. Passengers’ interests must come first and to resolve these issues we need all staff to come back to work.

In essence this is a battle between the unions and the management over whether they will allow new technologies and new ways of working on the railway. It is deeply deeply unfair on the passengers who are left in the middle of this dispute.

My ministerial and official team and I have been working hard since we took over our jobs just under 5 months ago to try to find a way through this. But the unions appear to have little interest in resolving the dispute unless the management cave in totally to their demands. These are not just to stop the current modernisation process, but to start reversing 30 years of working practice changes right across the country.

When I met the General Secretary of ASLEF soon after my appointment, with virtually his first breath he promised me “10 years of industrial action.” I have therefore believed it better to avoid direct ministerial involvement in negotiations during the autumn, as my involvement would make the issue even more political than it is.

Following their appearance on the Today programme a week ago, I wrote to the unions offering to become involved and meet them for talks if they called off their planned strikes. They have not yet replied to the letters.

Yesterday, Southern offered further talks at ACAS, the conciliation service, to try to find a resolution. ASLEF didn’t turn up. Last night Southern suggested another round of talks without preconditions today. The union refused. ASLEF demanded that Southern stopped taking legal action over the strike, but refused to suspend strike action in return. It’s very frustrating and not the actions of a union that wants to act to get services back to normal.

There has been some suggestion that the solution is to hand over Southern to the Mayor of London. Southern is part of a franchise that stretches from Cambridge to Southampton, via Brighton – way beyond the political remit of the Mayor. Transport for London has no experience of running a complicated main line railway like this. Indeed it does not even run railways itself. The Overground is run by Arriva and it performs well as a simple network which is mainly self-contained and therefore there is less need to co-ordinate with other operators and services. When things go wrong it is much easier to recover quickly on the Overground, with less impact on passengers.

I am very committed to trying to solve this problem for you. I wish we were dealing with reasonable people on the union side. For all the shortcomings of the train operator – and there have been many – and the failures of the infrastructure – also many – it is difficult to resolve any of the other problems on this network while the union leadership seem hell bent on fomenting this dispute.

We will continue to do everything we can to resolve things, and are looking carefully at all options to do so. In the meantime I am really really sorry that you are caught up in this with so much disruption to your lives.

[JayMac]

If true, what was said by ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) general secretary, promising "10 years of industrial action", then that's a big mistake. Unions taking on the Conservative Party is a fight the unions will lose.

Those that do not learn history are damned to repeat it.

[TaplowGreen]

If true, what was said by ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) general secretary, promising "10 years of industrial action", then that's a big mistake. Unions taking on the Conservative Party is a fight the unions will lose.

Those that do not learn history are damned to repeat it.

The rail unions are the last dinosaurs to have survived with a 1970s mentality, their power is derived mainly from their ability to cause massive inconvenience to London and the South East, this action and posturing will only hasten their extinction.

[ellendune]

The rail unions are the last dinosaurs to have survived with a 1970s mentality, their power is derived mainly from their ability to cause massive inconvenience to London and the South East, this action and posturing will only hasten their extinction.

They will only be extinct if they lose the confidence of their members.  I do not see any sign of that.

[TaplowGreen]

The rail unions are the last dinosaurs to have survived with a 1970s mentality, their power is derived mainly from their ability to cause massive inconvenience to London and the South East, this action and posturing will only hasten their extinction.

They will only be extinct if they lose the confidence of their members.  I do not see any sign of that.

There was a time when they said that about the NUM.

[Jason]

The Reagan administration had the right idea in the PATCO dispute.

[Tim]

The rail unions are the last dinosaurs to have survived with a 1970s mentality, their power is derived mainly from their ability to cause massive inconvenience to London and the South East, this action and posturing will only hasten their extinction.

They will only be extinct if they lose the confidence of their members.  I do not see any sign of that.

There was a time when they said that about the NUM.

But we managed to keep the light on without burning British coal. 

[John R]

I think much of it was. There was a years stockpile built up at the power stations as an insurance. But I get the point. You can't do that with train services.

[ray951]

I think the unions have walked into a trap as Grayling is an ideologue, you only have to have seen his letter to Boris Johnson about tfl and the London suburban services to see that and the Govt will either make it difficult to call strikes in the transport sector or just ban them all together.

[Tim]

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling writes to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and passengers on the Southern route ahead of planned strike action this week.

Dear Southern rail user,

Many of you have written to me in the past few days to ask what the government is doing to try to bring to an end the planned strike action on the network, and the ongoing work to rule that is disrupting services so much.

The first thing to explain is why this dispute is happening. The combined franchise, which includes Southern and Thameslink is currently going through a major programme of change that is designed to significantly increase capacity by the end of this decade. This has included the work at London Bridge and to expand capacity on the Thameslink route through London to a record level of 24 trains per hour. To do this requires significant use of new technology and new trains.

As a result, older trains are being phased out and replaced with a newer fleet which will include some of Britain’s most state of the art, automated trains. For a long time the majority of the trains on this network have been operated by the driver from the cab, normally without a guard on board. This hasn’t led to big drops in staff numbers – on the busier stations it has meant more staff on the platforms instead to help dispatch trains quicker. This is essential to trying to get a congested railway to run on time.

As the new trains are introduced, so more of the older trains that depend on a guard are removed. Rather than simply getting rid of the guard, though, the plan has been to create a new on-board supervisor role to provide better support for passengers. It is this change that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers), which represents the guards, has been fighting against – even though none of their members are losing their jobs or any money. In fact, there will be more on-board supervisors available on more trains than today.

This week’s strikes, though, are by the drivers’ union ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about), and are entirely politically motivated. ASLEF members will continue this week to drive Thameslink trains, which are driver only operated, on the same routes that their Southern members are boycotting. The independent rail safety inspector has said that these trains and the Southern approach, which mirrors what has happened on our railways for 30 years, is perfectly safe.

What has been most frustrating to everyone is that you are also experiencing routine problems on non-strike days too. The biggest factor behind this has been an ongoing and unofficial work to rule, with high levels of sickness, and a doubling of “broken down” trains whose faults cannot be replicated in the depot. However, there have also been too many failures of the Network Rail infrastructure, like signalling, and also very poor communication by the train company. These are things that also need to be sorted out. We have made a start on the infrastructure, but there is a long way to go. Passengers’ interests must come first and to resolve these issues we need all staff to come back to work.

In essence this is a battle between the unions and the management over whether they will allow new technologies and new ways of working on the railway. It is deeply deeply unfair on the passengers who are left in the middle of this dispute.

My ministerial and official team and I have been working hard since we took over our jobs just under 5 months ago to try to find a way through this. But the unions appear to have little interest in resolving the dispute unless the management cave in totally to their demands. These are not just to stop the current modernisation process, but to start reversing 30 years of working practice changes right across the country.

When I met the General Secretary of ASLEF soon after my appointment, with virtually his first breath he promised me “10 years of industrial action.” I have therefore believed it better to avoid direct ministerial involvement in negotiations during the autumn, as my involvement would make the issue even more political than it is.

Following their appearance on the Today programme a week ago, I wrote to the unions offering to become involved and meet them for talks if they called off their planned strikes. They have not yet replied to the letters.

Yesterday, Southern offered further talks at ACAS, the conciliation service, to try to find a resolution. ASLEF didn’t turn up. Last night Southern suggested another round of talks without preconditions today. The union refused. ASLEF demanded that Southern stopped taking legal action over the strike, but refused to suspend strike action in return. It’s very frustrating and not the actions of a union that wants to act to get services back to normal.

There has been some suggestion that the solution is to hand over Southern to the Mayor of London. Southern is part of a franchise that stretches from Cambridge to Southampton, via Brighton – way beyond the political remit of the Mayor. Transport for London has no experience of running a complicated main line railway like this. Indeed it does not even run railways itself. The Overground is run by Arriva and it performs well as a simple network which is mainly self-contained and therefore there is less need to co-ordinate with other operators and services. When things go wrong it is much easier to recover quickly on the Overground, with less impact on passengers.

I am very committed to trying to solve this problem for you. I wish we were dealing with reasonable people on the union side. For all the shortcomings of the train operator – and there have been many – and the failures of the infrastructure – also many – it is difficult to resolve any of the other problems on this network while the union leadership seem hell bent on fomenting this dispute.

We will continue to do everything we can to resolve things, and are looking carefully at all options to do so. In the meantime I am really really sorry that you are caught up in this with so much disruption to your lives.

Classic politician's letter.  Shifting the blame to the Unions because they are stuck in the 1970s rather than focussing on the details of the Southern problem directly in front of him.

The only sensible solution as I see it would be for Southern to retain a second safety critical person on every train and for the Union to allow the drivers to open and close the doors and for the second person to therefore spend more time selling and checking tickets.  All the jobs are retained, the safety advantages of having a second person on board to secure the train and help with evacuations are retained, and the Guard sells a few more tickets and therefore contributes a bit more to his/her upkeep.  The only looser here is the fare dodger.  

I don't see the Unions refusing a compromise of this nature because they agreed to it in Scotland.
I don't see Southern refusing it either as it ends the dispute and has the potential to increase fare revenue.
The only party against this is the Government who has decided that it wants a fight with a Union so that it can bask in the glory of a Thatcher-style union busting success because that is the kind of thing the Tory grass roots love.  

The Rail industry needs to look at how the airlines deal with Safety critical roles.  The cabin crew are highly trained and the plane will not be allowed out full of passengers without them.  But the airlines have decided to view these essential staff as an opportunity and use them to either provide high quality customer service in order to win customers (in First class on a full service airline) or to use them to generate ancillary revenue (selling cups of tea on a low cost carrier).  None of those activities undermine their safety critical role.