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Author Topic: Speed limits on the Westbury avoider  (Read 30529 times)
CyclingSid
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2016, 14:06:38 »

For any users wanting to look into the legal aspects the recommended book (900 odd pages) is:
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/rights-of-way-law-in-england-and-wales/the-blue-book.aspx
possibly available from local library. It is kept up to date by an on-line suuplement:
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/rights-of-way-law-in-england-and-wales/the-blue-book/the-blue-book-extra.aspx
Possibly relevant in this case, standard rights of way procedures are varied by various railway law, Railway Clauses Consolidation Act 1845 onwards.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2016, 17:36:50 »

That should keep grahame quiet for a few minutes ...  Tongue Wink Cheesy Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
grahame
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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2016, 21:37:40 »

That should keep grahame quiet for a few minutes ...  Tongue Wink Cheesy Grin




Hmm







Hmm








Hmm










Hmm






Hmm



.....
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TonyK
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2016, 10:44:49 »

I've never known 'slag' to be linked to coal. It's the waste material from the separation or smelting of metal from ore.

Correct. The proper term for useless waste mined with the desired material is "spoil", both for coal and ore. Although during my time as a tin miner (South Crofty, 1973-74, or was is 1793-94?) it was given a less polite sobriquet by grizzled Cornishmen. ("Spent all mornin' shovellin' s*** wi' a banjo, me 'ansum!")
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2016, 11:54:08 »

I've never known 'slag' to be linked to coal. It's the waste material from the separation or smelting of metal from ore.

Correct. The proper term for useless waste mined with the desired material is "spoil", both for coal and ore. Although during my time as a tin miner (South Crofty, 1973-74, or was is 1793-94?) it was given a less polite sobriquet by grizzled Cornishmen. ("Spent all mornin' shovellin' s*** wi' a banjo, me 'ansum!")
Ah but up north we had slag heaps by our old coal mines - must be a regional thing. One near Standish, just to the west of the M6 was continuously burning until they finally took it away - sometime in the late eighties.  We missed it when it had gone!

Twas in mining myself but not in this country.  There they were just spoil heaps or waste dumps - not nearly as colourful.
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TonyK
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2016, 13:05:57 »


Ah but up north we had slag heaps by our old coal mines - must be a regional thing. One near Standish, just to the west of the M6 was continuously burning until they finally took it away - sometime in the late eighties.  We missed it when it had gone!

Twas in mining myself but not in this country.  There they were just spoil heaps or waste dumps - not nearly as colourful.

I am also from up north, and yes, we called the slag heaps, albeit incorrectly.
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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2016, 14:44:25 »

Yes. The name Slag Lane derives from Westbury Iron Works which were situated nearby.

was it the lane down which slag was carried or was it a lane which was paved with slag?
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2016, 13:49:54 »

Wasn't it called clinker when it was used for paving?

Anyway, about the speed limit at the footpath level crossing: the footpath must be as old as the railway so if the speed limit is, as "temporary" implies, recently imposed, something must have changed. It's unlikely to be sight lines so the most likely thing that I can think of would be increased foot traffic from the recent housing development south of Oldfield Lane – or a change in attitude. Unless it's a response to a recent incident, which is really another aspect of change of attitude (to safety). So what could be done to make the crossing safer? Barriers, lights and alarms, like a road crossing? Or do NR» (Network Rail - home page) feel that would be setting a precedent against their policy of no new LCs (Level Crossing)? Could the developer of the new housing be persuaded to build a footbridge as condition for planning permission?

If the problem is actually lorries on the access road, I agree with the white line suggestion. At one lorry every 8-10 minutes, two lorries in opposite directions are unlikely to meet, so effectively a pedestrian area and a vehicle area.
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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2016, 15:04:26 »

... the most likely thing that I can think of would be increased foot traffic from the recent housing development south of Oldfield Lane – or a change in attitude.  ....

I didn't know it before that housing development, but logic suggests that prior to the construction of housing on and just off Oldfield Road this path would have had limited use, providing a meandering official route from the earlier built up part of Westbury towards Dilton Marsh - initially via fields but from the opening of the cutoff line via a level for crossing.   Also (at that time) probably already providing a further access into the station - but again really not used very much as the lack of housing at Oldfield Road meant that there were few residents in that area to make use of it.

I'm trying to figure out how old the houses are ... picture attachment of one I found online in one of the closes just off Oldfield Road.   The agent's details state:

Westbury is a small medieval town that lies not far from its famous White Horse hill-carving at the western extremity of Salisbury Plain. Westbury offers a range of shopping and leisure facilities including a library, sports centre, schools, churches, doctors, dentist surgeries, post office and the oldest swimming pool in the country. The main railway line has fantastic links to Bath, Bristol and London. Travelling by car to Salisbury, Bristol and Swindon takes approximately one hour making it very desirable for commuters.

Highly unusual for estate agent'e details in a "remote and rural county" such as Wiltshire to talk about rail line before road ones, which gives you the flavour of just how good these properties are for commuters. And as well as Bath, Bristol and London you can easily commute from there to Salisbury, Southampton, Swindon and Reading.

Quote
Unless it's a response to a recent incident, which is really another aspect of change of attitude (to safety). So what could be done to make the crossing safer? Barriers, lights and alarms, like a road crossing? Or do NR» (Network Rail - home page) feel that would be setting a precedent against their policy of no new LCs (Level Crossing)? Could the developer of the new housing be persuaded to build a footbridge as condition for planning permission?

I fear that a footbridge would need long ramps for disabled access ... and there's already an alert and light system installed but it's covered up / out of use.  Not sure what happened there.  In the media term, the development has a road going through it which is planned to include a new bridge not very far along to the west to provide a second access to the housing, and if that's not too far along it would be a sensible permanent compromise.

Quote
If the problem is actually lorries on the access road, I agree with the white line suggestion. At one lorry every 8-10 minutes, two lorries in opposite directions are unlikely to meet, so effectively a pedestrian area and a vehicle area.

If the problem is actually lorries, then (in my view) there's a far bigger problem directly outside the station entrance.  Passengers arriving off trains spill out on a fairly narrow pavement.  In front of them is the road, with (directly across) end-on bays for passenger drop off and pick up.  No formal crossing.  As well as the lorries, all cars parking for longer term at the station pass along this road, and people to / from their parked cars also pass along it, no formal footpath though of late traffic cones and tape have added a sort of footway.  Waiting taxis park up one side of the road and those buses which call at the station pass through this area twice - once to get to where they can turn at the top of the car park and once as they pass back to get to the bus stop.

In contrast, the access road's just like a minor road anywhere in the countryside where the divers of vehicles should take care that there met be pedestrians around.  There aren't the plethora of hazards there which exist at the station entrance, and it should be within the ability of the drivers of vehicles to allow for the hazard on the access road.

I believe that preventing people walking along the access road is intended to reduce traffic over the crossing, which cannot be closed without a long procedure.  If I'm correct and this was explained to the public, the public wouldn't feel they were being sold porkies. And if it was accompanied by forward thinking to provide a permanent good solution for all parties, the public would feel very much more involved and be much more inclined to take a more positive attitude. With the current lane closure seen as vindictive by some people I've spoken to, and reponses to complaints as being patronising, the public are hardly on board with the closure and trust of Network Rail is lacking.
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« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2016, 15:11:22 »

I thought I had explained about the crossing protection earlier in the thread here http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17549.msg202872#msg202872
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grahame
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« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2016, 15:22:31 »

I thought I had explained about the crossing protection earlier in the thread here http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17549.msg202872#msg202872

Correct - you did - thank you.

I was out of place to write ...
Quote
Not sure what happened there.
... and can only claim a personal lapse in not reminding myself of the earlier answer as I followed up further. Sorry about that - should have added a link back.   Should also have attached the picture I promised in that earlier thread to give you an idea of the sort of housing served.  I'm not being too bright a bunny today.
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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 17:24:30 »

As I whizzed past at 100mph on a Down train earlier today (25/04/2017) I noticed some work taking place on the Westbury Avoider footpath crossing.  I'm heading that way again at the end of next week so I will try to see what was going on.  The 50mph speed restriction on the Up line is still in place.

Edit: Noted its still shown as for crossing safety; http://www.railperformancedata.org.uk/index/siteforum-list-action/post.3659/title.tsrs-22-28th-april
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 19:45:05 by SandTEngineer » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2017, 18:27:41 »

Well I went through today, 05/05/2017 (in both directions).  The 50mph speed restriction on the Up Westbury Avoiding Line has been removed at last (hurah).  It looks like (bit difficult to tell at 100mph) that the footpath crossing warning equipment has been commissioned.  Wonder if this has been made the test site to get product approval back again?  If not then it could have been fitted with one of the new 'train horn recording' playback systems.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:54:05 by SandTEngineer » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2017, 20:46:46 »

Went through once again today (06/05/2017) at 100mph in both directions but it certainly looks as though the crossing protection system (EBIGate 200: http://www.weidmuller.co.uk/uk/industries/transportation/uk-rail/applications---case-studies/a-safe-feeling-in-the-countryside) originally installed but then taken out of use due to the product approval issues, has been reactivated.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 17:04:00 by SandTEngineer » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2017, 16:49:53 »

The story continues ... the developer's persuaded the county council to allow him 300 houses not 250 so that there's enough to make a £1 million contribution to a bridge.  And that removes the loop road that would allow buses to access the station easily.   A further million's needed from a third source for the bridge (there's already a million from previous housing in the pot) and it's suggested that could come from yet more housing to the south of the avoider line.

Information has been passed to the Town Council to the effect that the foot crossing will be closed by Network Rail at some point in the not too distant future, even if the bridge hasn't yet been built.   My source, who's on the town council, tells me that the council isn't exactly thrilled with the loss of bus access and the likely closure of the crossing without alternative available to take over.  Complains about Network Rail not informing them, and about a somewhat cavalier attitude over the whole business from Network Rail.
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