Station Closure Proposal / Consultation - Norton Bridge

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

As well as the sneaky closure of  Norton Bridge what about Barlaston and Wedgwood also on the line to Stoke on Trent. Will they be put up for closure being soley served by bus.

I can't believe that with the the flyover at Norton Bridge and 110 mph 360s there isn't time to stop the Stafford Stoke locals.

[ellendune]

I thought that with the flyover the Stafford Stoke Locals no longer go through the station as they would diverge onto the new line before the station. The line then goes the other side of the village.   

I think the Stafford Crewe slow trains also use this diversion.  If I am right only the Crewe Stafford locals could stop. 

So unless they build a completely new station the other side of the village on the new line, it could only ever going to have southbound services. 

Edited after finding a new track diagram

[IndustryInsider]

You can route from Down Fast towards Stoke via the Norton Bridge East Chord, so trains could in theory run from Stafford towards Stoke calling at the old platform.  See the opentraintimes map http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/sta for the location of signals that allow this to happen from signal 3605 via 5691, 5693 and 5695 to 401.  Cumbersome to say the least though.

Not possible to head to Crewe from Stafford and call at Norton Bridge's old platforms.

[chrisr_75]

grahame,

I'm a Lancashire lad. Notwithstanding their love of home, but what part of the word 'pretty' are you applying to the domestic settlements of Skelmesdale and Garstang? 

I'm a Lancashire lad too and have fond memories of staying with relatives near Garstang.  Skelmersdale is pretty much one of the largest towns without a station.

Having lived a large proportion of my life in that neck of the woods, I can't say I've ever heard Denbigh referred to as being pretty either!

I used to pass through regularly late on Thursdays or Fridays on my way back from Manchester airport and it's the only place I've ever seen 2 women having a fist fight in the street. And that was on a Thursday night as I recall and on more than one occasion! It's a rough old town! Surrounding area, I concede, is particularly lovely though!

[grahame]

Correction to my earlier post - re none-express passenger trains running between Stone and Stafford.  The London (Euston) to Crewe service - via the Trent Valley line, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent and Alsager runs that way every hour.   And in doing so provides the (only, I think) services to Stone.

Stone is an interesting case on the Stafford - Norton Bridge - Stone - Barlaston and Tittensor - Wedgwood - Stoke-on-Trent service which was suspended / bustituted on a temporary basis about a decade ago.  Ticket sales dropped to 1,342 in the 2006/7 year but rose with a decent service restored to 103,472.   I know that's just an extra "0" and "7" in the number,  but in reality it's massive.    It's a little disappointing that at the end of the temporary closure of Stone when a solution was found, permanent solutions weren't also found at the other three stations.

In my mind, I had the Manchester to Stoke-on-Trent local carrying on via Stafford to Birmingham (and providing service to Penkridge on the way).    My bad - there's a half-hourly Birmingham to Liverpool service calling at Penkridge (hourly in one direction, half hourly in the other it appears from a a quick look!) that passes the current Norton Bridge site, but wouldn't pass a resite at Yarnfield Juntion.   Correction for the record.

[IndustryInsider]

My bad - there's a half-hourly Birmingham to Liverpool service calling at Penkridge (hourly in one direction, half hourly in the other it appears from a a quick look!) that passes the current Norton Bridge site, but wouldn't pass a resite at Yarnfield Juntion.   Correction for the record.

A bit of an oddity that one.  Birmingham to Liverpool (2nd and 7th largest cities in UK^▸ (United Kingdom)) and not too far from each other but without a quality InterCity style service, having what could only be described as a semi-fast regional service using 4-car London Midland Class 350s, calling at places like Coseley, Penkridge, Winsford and Hartford.  Don't think adding Norton Bridge into the mix would help much!

[paul7575]

As well as the sneaky closure of  Norton Bridge what about Barlaston and Wedgwood also on the line to Stoke on Trent. Will they be put up for closure being soley served by bus.

I can't believe that with the the flyover at Norton Bridge and 110 mph 360s there isn't time to stop the Stafford Stoke locals.

If you check out the full consultation report (linked earlier) the prospective LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) franchisees HAVE been asked to come up with a case for calls at Barlaston and Wedgewood, if that isn't successful DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) say a separate closure procedure would be commenced for those two stations.

Separately, the Department will be considering the case for reinstating train services at Barlaston and Wedgwood stations, which have also been served by a rail-replacement bus service since 2004. Bidders for the next West Midlands Franchise have been asked to provide costs for the reinstatement of train services to these stations. A decision on the future of these stations will be made following receipt of bids for the West Midlands franchise and any proposal to close one or both stations will be subject to a separate consultation process.

As a side point, there are also track plans in the report explaining the new layout and why northbound trains cannot call, (basically repeating the diagram Grahame has posted above.   Let's face it, the whole rationale for the Norton Bridge flyover was to completely avoid routine flat crossings of the up fast by down trans to Stoke.  The facility is probably there for perturbations and engineering work only.

Paul

[Rhydgaled]

Birmingham to Liverpool (2nd and 7th largest cities in UK^▸ (United Kingdom)) and not too far from each other but without a quality InterCity style service, having what could only be described as a semi-fast regional service using 4-car London Midland Class 350s, calling at places like Coseley, Penkridge, Winsford and Hartford.

Birmingham-Manchester isn't much better, with 4/5-car Voyagers being the main service between the two as far as I can recall (at least the basic design of a Voyager is InterCity style I suppose, even though the number of coaches is more regional-express than InterCity and the interior on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) units is not much good either). One of the benifits of doing HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) the way I think it should be done (with Curzon street as a through station and no Birmingham bypass) is that the same 200m & 400m trains used on London services would also provide the links between Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool as through trains (possibly Chester and north Wales too, if the route were to be electrified).

[dviner]

with Curzon street as a through station and no Birmingham bypass

Curious as to what would happen with the Grade I listed entrance building if it was changed to a through station.

[paul7575]

with Curzon street as a through station and no Birmingham bypass

Curious as to what would happen with the Grade I listed entrance building if it was changed to a through station.

No need to worry about it being turned into a through station at this stage, Rhydgaled's is a regularly repeated suggestion that had been thoroughly debunked by HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) in the early stages of design.   A through underground station under central Birmingham, with useful numbers of platforms, on a suitable London <> NW orientation, and with all the necessary underground tunnelled approaches,  was declared to be unbuildable for the budget.   

Rather like the proposed "Euston Cross" underground station in London.

This is going off at quite a tangent from the Norton Bridge closure though...

Paul

[Rhydgaled]

In reply to both dviner and paul7755, I assume the grade I listed building refered to is this one (not my pic). If so, I believe it actually lies just outside the planned footprint of the proposed HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) station (and near the London end of the proposed platforms). My suggestion is to use a very similar footprint to the planned HS2 station, but sunken below ground level (NOT tunneled) with tunnel portals at one end and a slope up to the planned HS2 route at the other. Thus my suggestion is more like Stratford International than Euston Cross, and neither my idea nor (happily) the official scheme is likely to require demolition of that building.

If even my suggestion of a through station (in the open air, with tunnel on one side only) on the same site as HS2's proposed terminus is unbuildable, then in my opinion HS2 should not serve central Birmingham at all and instead just have the interchange at the airport; a London-Birmingham shuttle at 200-250mph is just so terribly inefficient.

[grahame]

how much money has been spent on running a replacement bus service?

Don't know ... but from Facebook

Even Though Norton Bridge officially closed some time ago, it's rail replacement bus service remained funded until today. Today is the last day that you can buy a railway ticket to Norton Bridge near Stafford.

The last rail replacement bus to leave Norton Bridge will be at 17.33 to Stone Granville Square, bringing down the curtain on Norton Bridge as a rly served destination for the last 182 years!

[grahame]

Further report at https://busandtrainuser.com/2019/03/29/farewell-norton-bridge/

and clearly it was a well promoted service - NOT!

... there was absolutely no information about the route, its times or even its existence anywhere in Stafford station or outside on the bus shelters. It’s always tricky when you’re not sure where a bus route departs ...