21 October 2016 - 19:03 Paddington to Penzance terminated at Reading

[whole diary]

[Henry]

It seems that the options for an additional service, bearing in mind rolling stock or pathways is totally out of the
question for a Friday evening.
 I seem to remember in the mid 1970's travelling on a Paddington - Penzance service. It was not a Sleeper Service,
as it was all seated accommodation. Left Paddington about 2300, arriving Penzance about 0800. No buffet, but a wheeled trolley with a tea-pot. Might have been pre-HST^▸ (High Speed Train) days as it was Loco and coaches. Perhaps some of our
mature members could help out with the details.
Point being that if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are sincere in their efforts to alleviate over crowding, would not a service be feasible.
Even to the extent of chartering Loco's/Coaches, they have used similar arrangements before.

 

[stuving]

... I seem to remember in the mid 1970's travelling on a Paddington - Penzance service. It was not a Sleeper Service, as it was all seated accommodation. Left Paddington about 2300, arriving Penzance about 0800. No buffet, but a wheeled trolley with a tea-pot. ...

I'm not sure about the 1970s, but I do remember using a "Nightrider" service in the 1980s. That was from Falkirk Grahamston to Peterborough, return on Sunday to Falkirk High (probably due to engineering work) and a walk down the hill to Grahamston.

These trains were all old (though not very old) first class open saloons, so as to give you some prospect of a bit of half-sleep anyway. They were promoted as a cheap option, and not just cheaper than a sleeper, rather than extra capacity. And they did run some rather odd routes.

As I recall it, night trains had almost died out by then and the "Nightrider" branding was an attempt to bring them back and perhaps to pick up some passengers from the long-distance coach market.

[grahame]

To inform myself (and the discussion) I took a look at the down main departures on a Friday evening. 

18:22 Hereford
18:25 Heathrow
18:30 Weston-super-Mare
18:35 Plymouth
18:40 Heathrow
18:45 Swansea
18:47 Cheltenham Spa
18:50 Oxford
18:55 Heathrow
19:00 Bristol
19:03 Penzance
19:05 Henley on Thames
19:10 Heathrow
19:12 Bristol
19:15 Swansea
19:18 Oxford
19:22 Hereford
19:25 Heathrow
19:30 Weston-super-Mare
19:40 Heathrow

[Western Pathfinder]

I seem to remember the service from Pad to Plymouth I used it in 1974 on my first Railrover trip .

[Sleepy]

It seems that the options for an additional service, bearing in mind rolling stock or pathways is totally out of the
question for a Friday evening.
 I seem to remember in the mid 1970's travelling on a Paddington - Penzance service. It was not a Sleeper Service,
as it was all seated accommodation. Left Paddington about 2300, arriving Penzance about 0800. No buffet, but a wheeled trolley with a tea-pot. Might have been pre-HST^▸ (High Speed Train) days as it was Loco and coaches. Perhaps some of our
mature members could help out with the details.
Point being that if GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are sincere in their efforts to alleviate over crowding, would not a service be feasible.
Even to the extent of chartering Loco's/Coaches, they have used similar arrangements before.

 

Even into the late 80's an additional Friday Only 23XX Pad to Penzance relief (seating only) operated as the Night Riveria couldn't cope with demand.
1903 should be Advance tickets in very limited no's to Plymouth & Cornwall only , also an easement on Friday 1803 for Super Off Peak ticket holders perhaps ?

[IndustryInsider]

To inform myself (and the discussion) I took a look at the down main departures on a Friday evening.

No spare spaces there as you can see, unless you move some of the Heathrow's forward a couple of minutes so that the odd five minute gaps become three minutes.  In practice that gives even less chance to recover from delays and whilst three minute departures might work, when you factor in arrivals as well it becomes virtually impossible to path everything efficiently.

[simonw]

Are those all the trains that Paddington can send out?

It is astonishing after all these very expensive station upgrades only Reading has added significant capacity.

If Paddington cannot deliver more trains, then it has to deliver longer trains on these popular routes, why not 14/15 carriage trains that only stop at fixed stations and split in tow along the route.

[phile]

Are those all the trains that Paddington can send out?

It is astonishing after all these very expensive station upgrades only Reading has added significant capacity.

If Paddington cannot deliver more trains, then it has to deliver longer trains on these popular routes, why not 14/15 carriage trains that only stop at fixed stations and split in tow along the route.

What about headways between each train ?

[John R]

It's only the trains that use the main lines.  As phile states, the limiting factor is now the headways needed.  IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will provide some improvement with 9/10 carriage trains.

My hope is that a small number of HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are retained for peak days and special events, of which there are numerous throughout the year.  They could even be leased to other operators when available. Though I suspect I will probably be disappointed.

[SandTEngineer]

Well thats about a 3.5 minute headway continuous for a single hour.  Thats pretty good going for the Down Main thats signalled for a three minute headway and allows for absolute minimum perturbation.

[bobm]

My hope is that a small number of HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are retained for peak days and special events, of which there are numerous throughout the year.  They could even be leased to other operators when available. Though I suspect I will probably be disappointed.

I agree with your hope - the challenge will be keeping staff with the traction knowledge and ensuring servicing can still be carried out.  That's even before someone pays for retention toilets and plug doors.

[LiskeardRich]

Are those all the trains that Paddington can send out?

It is astonishing after all these very expensive station upgrades only Reading has added significant capacity.

If Paddington cannot deliver more trains, then it has to deliver longer trains on these popular routes, why not 14/15 carriage trains that only stop at fixed stations and split in tow along the route.

Are most passengers for Cornwall from Paddington or further west? Could a Cornwall service turn round at
Reading instead of Paddington?

[Bob_Blakey]

Overcrowding on certain West of England down services has been an issue for as long as I can remember but, anecdotally, seems to be getting worse. I can't believe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) don't know which trains are concerned. It is a problem that requires a quick fix, even if only for a relatively short period until the new trains arrive, and I am convinced that 'passengers with reservations only' services, with appropriate boarding controls at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), is the way forward.

[a-driver]

Overcrowding on certain West of England down services has been an issue for as long as I can remember but, anecdotally, seems to be getting worse. I can't believe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) don't know which trains are concerned. It is a problem that requires a quick fix, even if only for a relatively short period until the new trains arrive, and I am convinced that 'passengers with reservations only' services, with appropriate boarding controls at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), is the way forward.

But by having a "reservation only train" means those without reservations are going to pile onto the next service meaning you'll be back to square one.

[TaplowGreen]

Overcrowding on certain West of England down services has been an issue for as long as I can remember but, anecdotally, seems to be getting worse. I can't believe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) don't know which trains are concerned. It is a problem that requires a quick fix, even if only for a relatively short period until the new trains arrive, and I am convinced that 'passengers with reservations only' services, with appropriate boarding controls at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), is the way forward.

But by having a "reservation only train" means those without reservations are going to pile onto the next service meaning you'll be back to square one.

I don't think you would be, because it's the last Cornish service of the day & one of the main problems with the 1903 (in particular) is that it picks up a lot of commuter traffic to Reading/Newbury - take that out of the equation and those commuting passengers would spread out amongst other local and HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services before/after the 1903.

Alternatively for a quicker (instant if there is the will) fix just manage the boarding and don't let Reading passengers board the 1903 - is that beyond the wit/capability of the ticket gates/staff?