21 October 2016 - 19:03 Paddington to Penzance terminated at Reading

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Given suitable rolling stock, I see no reason why some of the current waterloo to Reading services could not be extended to say Taunton. The present DC^▸ (Direct Current) electric trains would not be suitable of course.

I doubt that any such extended services would be very popular as they would be very slow between Waterloo and Reading, and cant realistically be accelerated as they exist primarily to serve the many intermediate stations.

The other option would be a new service from Waterloo into "western" territory, perhaps via Salisbury. Given some new or cascaded diesel trains, that should be doable.
Indeed, many services ran from Waterloo during engineering work.

For any such scheme to work, a relatively small number of maximum length trains would be needed. A few short trains wont provide much extra capacity, and I doubt that paths could be found for more than a few services.

   They already run services from Waterloo to Exeter Central.......just over 3 hours.

[IndustryInsider]

So, 3h 25m or so from Waterloo to Exeter, then a further three hours to Penzance.  They have no spare stock (they withdrew from Plymouth/Paignton last decade so they could make better use of their diesel stock) and even if they did the number of paths out of Waterloo is just as restricted as it is out of Paddington.  In the unlikely event a path did become available at around 7pm, or you extended the existing 19:20, then you'd be looking at an arrival of somewhere between a 1:30am-2am at the earliest.  Can't see that being particularly popular, and I very much doubt SWT^▸ (South West Trains) (or whoever gets the next franchise) would be jumping at the chance to operate it!

A much more likely 'solution' would be to extend one of the later GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Plymouth trains.

[Jason]

I recall on a Christmas Eve at Paddington many years ago that all tickets were checked prior to boarding a Cornwall service.
Anyone with short haul destinations (season tickets included) was refused boarding in order to allow people going all the way to stand a chance of getting home for Christmas.

[ellendune]

But the Waterloo Reading Services are already busy in the peak and I assume so are the Salisbury and Exeter Trains, at least for the first part of the Journey. 

[PhilWakely]

So, 3h 25m or so from Waterloo to Exeter, then a further three hours to Penzance.  They have no spare stock (they withdrew from Plymouth/Paignton last decade so they could make better use of their diesel stock) and even if they did the number of paths out of Waterloo is just as restricted as it is out of Paddington.  In the unlikely event a path did become available at around 7pm, or you extended the existing 19:20, then you'd be looking at an arrival of somewhere between a 1:30am-2am at the earliest.  Can't see that being particularly popular, and I very much doubt SWT^▸ (South West Trains) (or whoever gets the next franchise) would be jumping at the chance to operate it!

A much more likely 'solution' would be to extend one of the later GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Plymouth trains.

Isn't the 19:20 WAT-EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) just as overcrowded as the 19:03 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ ??  I have used it a dozen times in the last year and on each occasion it was standing room only at least to Basingstoke and on a couple of occasions to Salisbury.

[ellendune]

We just have to face it.  At the moment there is not enough track capacity to have any extra services to the anywhere out of London at peak times.

Enforcing pick-up only seem the best option to me. However, I know that Reading westwards may be a big flow, but if pick-up only cannot be enforced then some trains will not be able to call there otherwise every long distance service becomes a Reading commuter train.  Crowding long distance passengers out for the first 30 miles or so of a 200 mile journey, makes no sense at all, unless there is an equally large number joining at Reading to go west.

If commuter stops are left out then provide a Reading to Westbury stopper service and Reading passengers to the west can then join the train at Westbury.  No its not ideal, but without more track capacity or even longer trains what else can be done.

From Swindon we use long distance trains for local journeys to the west, but then we have no choice since we have not been allowed any local trains since 1965, except for the brief golden period when the Oxford Bristol Trains ran. 

[TaplowGreen]

We just have to face it.  At the moment there is not enough track capacity to have any extra services to the anywhere out of London at peak times.

Enforcing pick-up only seem the best option to me. However, I know that Reading westwards may be a big flow, but if pick-up only cannot be enforced then some trains will not be able to call there otherwise every long distance service becomes a Reading commuter train.  Crowding long distance passengers out for the first 30 miles or so of a 200 mile journey, makes no sense at all, unless there is an equally large number joining at Reading to go west.

If commuter stops are left out then provide a Reading to Westbury stopper service and Reading passengers to the west can then join the train at Westbury.  No its not ideal, but without more track capacity or even longer trains what else can be done.

From Swindon we use long distance trains for local journeys to the west, but then we have no choice since we have not been allowed any local trains since 1965, except for the brief golden period when the Oxford Bristol Trains ran. 

Agree 100% re: paras 2 and 3. I have had an acknowledgement of my enquiry so look forward to the response.......in hope rather than expectation! 

[JayMac]

It's worth noting that the Reading call on the 1903 from Paddington may, like the Newbury call, also be a franchise Service Level Commitment for services to the West of England.

[broadgage]

Restricting sales of discounted advance tickets would help a bit, as would enforcing the "pick up only" rule at Reading.

What is needed however is a very substantial increase in capacity. The IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will help a bit PROVIDED THAT they are without fail always full length on busy services. It wont take many  half length ones on a busy day to cause worse overcrowding than that recently reported.

Likewise the two new Crossrail platforms will provide a bit more capacity.

Re signalling will allegedly provide more paths, but recent experiences with new signalling are not encouraging, and anyway the signalling work is deferred.

The only way of conveying significantly greater numbers of passengers would seem to be longer trains.

1) order more IEPs
2) modify these and the existing fleet to run in multiples of up to 18 or 20 vehicles.
3) restore to use the very long platform at Paddington.

A single very long platform should be able to accommodate at least 5 trains in the evening peak, and since each train will be of twice the capacity, an extra 5 paths have in effect been provided.

Possible services could include 18 car from Paddington, rear 9 detached at Reading, front 9 for Plymouth.
Or 18 car from Paddington, to divide at Taunton, front 9 principle stations to Penzance, rear 9 all stations to Penzance.

All this would entail substantial expense, but we cant carry on forever with a growing population and infrastructure sized for 100 years ago.

[bobm]

Possible services could include 18 car from Paddington, rear 9 detached at Reading, front 9 for Plymouth.
Or 18 car from Paddington, to divide at Taunton, front 9 principle stations to Penzance, rear 9 all stations to Penzance.

How would this work at Reading? You couldn't get 18 on the platform there - so you'd either need to stop with part of each set on the platform and use selective doors or "slip" the rear portion outside the station.  Or are you suggesting longer platforms at Reading and other stations as needed to Taunton?

[SandTEngineer]

Moving block signalling is one future solution for line capacity but this does't overcome the constraints caused by station and platform capacity which then become the 'pinch' points

[broadgage]

Possible services could include 18 car from Paddington, rear 9 detached at Reading, front 9 for Plymouth.
Or 18 car from Paddington, to divide at Taunton, front 9 principle stations to Penzance, rear 9 all stations to Penzance.

How would this work at Reading? You couldn't get 18 on the platform there - so you'd either need to stop with part of each set on the platform and use selective doors or "slip" the rear portion outside the station.  Or are you suggesting longer platforms at Reading and other stations as needed to Taunton?

I would suggest that as the front portion is for stations beyond Reading, that MOST of the front portion need not be platformed, perhaps only the last couple of vehicles of the front portion, and the entire rear portion.
Taunton already has very long platforms that would accept most of an extra long train, with perhaps just the rear two and the front two not being platformed.

[patch38]

I would suggest that as the front portion is for stations beyond Reading, that MOST of the front portion need not be platformed, perhaps only the last couple of vehicles of the front portion, and the entire rear portion.
Taunton already has very long platforms that would accept most of an extra long train, with perhaps just the rear two and the front two not being platformed.

Would that actually work in practice? Wouldn't the front of the train then be out of section and quite possibly be fouling something?

[grahame]

No realistic extra slots (short term) out of Paddington.  No realistic chance of lengthening any 8+2 trains.

The 19:05 to Henley is an interesting train on the 'fast' and I wonder how long and busy it is on a Friday; are all the regulars on a POETS^▸ (As in "Poets day". Friday. (Push Off Early - Tomorrow's Saturday).) day, or do they work late to make sure they leave clean desks for the weekend?   It calls at Twyford at 19:38, goes up and down to Henley, then runs empty to Reading.    While it's on the branch, another train sits in the bay ....

Let's say the 19:05 carried on to Reading and Newbury on a Friday, then ran empty from there to the depot.  19:03 become pick up only at Reading and at Newbury.  The Henley branch train makes an extra round trip.

Possible issues.   It might be that the 19:05 is already stuffed with people out of Paddington.   And it might be that it's political dynamite to suggest removing a through Henley service on a Friday, even if it's going to happen anyway with Crossrail.

[BBM]

Possible issues.   It might be that the 19:05 is already stuffed with people out of Paddington.   And it might be that it's political dynamite to suggest removing a through Henley service on a Friday, even if it's going to happen anyway with Crossrail.

The Henley Branch Users Group Twitter account (@HenleyBUG) often tweets from the 19:05 as it would appear that it's quite often 3 cars instead of the scheduled 5. Indeed that appears to have been the case all this week and tonight it was "incredibly cramped on board".