Tram overturns in Croydon - 7 killed, 51 injured - 9 Nov 2016

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Speed looks like at least a contributing factor

Speculation alert. We shouldn't attempt to second guess what have might have caused this.

Of course not.  Sadly he can't help himself.

[bignosemac]

More than one online news outlet are now reporting that eight are feared dead.

I'll stress that those reports are unconfirmed.

And I have to say that suggesting speed as a factor is hardly wild speculation.

[ChrisB]

Nor can BNM then - 'unconfirmed reports' are surely speculation reporting.

And that BBC news article I quoted above - the reporter was speculating.....and no one complained there

[Bmblbzzz]

I hadn't realised this was such a serious incident. Thoughts with all those involved. 

[chrisr_75]

And I have to say that suggesting speed as a factor is hardly wild speculation.

No, but as there is a data recorder on board, RAIB should be able to determine the cause quite quickly, so any speculation is just a bit pointless really - excess speed could be caused by any number of factors, so speculation is somewhat unhelpful, especially on a public area of the forum - the media are well known for plagiarising 'specialist' forums such as this and taking anything said as gospel. Speculation, if it must be made (I completely accept it is a natural human reaction to event such as this), should be reserved for the frequent posters area imho.

[LiskeardRich]

I've read an article earlier today (can't remember the source) which stated it came Off in a tunnel and not on the junction.

[Rob on the hill]

Driver arrested according to BBC news.

[bignosemac]

Driver arrested according to BBC news.

With the BBC now reporting five fatalities.

[broadgage]

Latest BBC news reports show the overturned tram from several viewpoints rather than the earlier potentially misleading picture of an upright tram.

It is now said that 5 lives are lost  This I find especially shocking. The tram does not appear badly damaged but looks to be substantially intact.
I find it very shocking that a relatively low* speed accident involving a well built modern tram has resulted in ANY loss of life, let alone multiple lives lost.
So far as we can see, no other road or rail vehicle was involved, and neither is there any suggestion of collision with a bridge abutment or other immovable obstruction.

*I appreciate that we do not know at speed the tram was travelling, and that the actual speed MAY have been in excess of that permitted, but it must still have been modest compared to a main line railway or a motorway.

I am sure that the bereaved and injured are in all our thoughts.

[eightf48544]

BBC have reported speed limit over curve is 16 mph (25 kmh). I seem to remember Tramlink speedos are in kph.

[Tim]

truly shocking.  I am amazed that so many people have been killed.  Not good at all.

[ChrisB]

Those trams have a lot of hard edges - seats, bars for holding etc....I am not surprised of the injuries, I am surprised it went over. I suspect the trams weren't built with a prospect, and therefore safety of pax, of going over.

[chrisr_75]

Those trams have a lot of hard edges - seats, bars for holding etc....I am not surprised of the injuries, I am surprised it went over. I suspect the trams weren't built with a prospect, and therefore safety of pax, of going over.

I think the amount of glass in these modern trams might have had some influence on the outcome, especially in a rollover situation.

I lived in the Netherlands for a number of years where there are many tram systems and although derailments and interactions with other road vehicles and users were quite commonplace (as were loony fast/aggressive tram drivers - the speed at which trams can negotiate tight curves without drama is rather impressive!!), I don't recall witnessing or reading about anything as severe as this. Something really has gone badly wrong here today.

[Bmblbzzz]

Speed is being talked of but that could be due to leaves causing loss of braking adhesion. Or it could be the tram hit an object on the track. If people were standing, that would presumably make injuries more severe – unfortunately to the point of fatality.

[grahame]

From the TfL website:

There is currently no tram service between Reeves Corner and Addington Village / Harrington Road. It is unlikely that any services will run on this route for the rest of the day.

Mike Brown, London's Transport Commissioner, said: '‎All of our thoughts are with those who sadly lost their lives in this incident, those who were injured and the families of those affected.

'We are working closely with the emergency services on site and will continue to work with them ‎during the investigation into what happened.'

With closure only of the tramway section out to Addington, we may read that the authorities are not concerned at their being a generic safety issue for which check must be made.  However, suggestions as to what might have caused the "incident" (I note TfL did not use the word accident) are purely speculation at the moment.   Some are probably more likely causes than others, but I'm always reminded of several past incidents where the red-hot favourite reason has turned out to be not what caused it at all.