Tram overturns in Croydon - 7 killed, 51 injured - 9 Nov 2016

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

I think Tramlink should change their Twitter header picture on @TramsLondon. It's a picture of tram 2551, the one involved in today's incident.

[grahame]

Pages 12 and 13 of the London Evening Standard.  Shocking given it's a London paper and the number of fatalities.  Would the coverage have been any more comprehensive had it been a tube or national rail train I wonder, or we're all eyes obsessed with the USA?

There seems to me (past thoughts) a dual standard between reporting of road and rail incidents where there are similar casualties, with the very rarity of rail accidents giving them much higher visibility than road ones.  "Croydon's trams are road vehicles" perhaps think the editors who choose on story merits - having seen them in the centre of the town.  Also noting that this took place (it appears from what I can see) away from a location in the easy gaze of passing road users / pedestrians, there wasn't huge destruction of infrastructure, and the initial reports were very measured rather than suggesting the number of casualties we now know occurred.

Just a theory; hard for me to gauge from where I am this week; here in Denmark, only one TV channel in English - BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) World - and that's been nothing but the USA election result.  And, yes there's only one front page and more or less the same amount of editorial each day ... a good day to bring out a report on electrification delays / cancellations too if you want that to get only muted attention.

[Pb_devon]

And to add to the poor reporting... BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website report this morning says the driver "was at the wheel".

[TaplowGreen]

And to add to the poor reporting... BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) website report this morning says the driver "was at the wheel".

BBC News have just confirmed that the Police are suggesting that the driver was asleep (at the wheel or whatever)

[eightf48544]

Given that the line speed further back towards Addington when it's on the old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) formation is 80 kmh and the speed over the curve is 20 kmh a drop of 60 kmh I would have expected there to be some form of warning or approach control as there would be on Network Rail

[froome]

the first mention on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) was at 12 noon - six hours after it happened.  Personally I question that news judgement.

I heard about it on BBC R4 on the Today programme, but it had minimal information and was the 'other' story in the news bulletin as far as I can remember and was not referred to again in the time I was listening. I had to go online to find out more. It was in the 9am bulletin as again with no embellishment. It was mentioned on Venessa Feltz BBC London programme (I went looking for a source of more info) but only in the travel report.

I completely concur with the questioning of the news judgement.

It was actually first mentioned soon after 6am on Radio 4, that news was coming in about an incident where a tram had come off the rails and there were several injured. By the time I left to catch a train before 8am I knew from the radio that there had been fatalities, so they were reporting it, though I fully agree that it should have been given greater prominence.

Speaking as a train passenger, the vulnerability of passengers who always have to stand for their journeys does concern me, especially when combined with relatively high speeds. We may be safe on the rails but it doesn't always feel like that when you are being thrown around (though I do feel even less safe having to stand on buses which, with some drivers, can feel positively dangerous).

[ChrisB]

It will be interesting to see whether TfL^» (Transport for London - about) are required to add safety aspects to their trams/track - overspeed limiters, AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System)-lite, etc....and where they might find the money - now that the Mayor has implemented a fare freeze across his term in office.....with the cost cutting going on by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), I can't see the money coming from Government.

[stuving]

Given that the line speed further back towards Addington when it's on the old BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) formation is 80 kmh and the speed over the curve is 20 kmh a drop of 60 kmh I would have expected there to be some form of warning or approach control as there would be on Network Rail

More explicitly, it's the end of a long straight stretch of railway, in all but name, and both a transition to on-road tram operation and a sharp bend. So yes, you would expect something. The first place to look is presumably Germany (or Switzerland), where such off-road trams (not all of which are tram-trains) have been common for years.

I wonder what you would see with a similar transition from a well-segregated off-road busway to a road at a sharp bend. I suspect that overspeeding incidents would be quite common, but a bus is as likely to skid off the road as it is to turn over.

[IndustryInsider]

Certainly surprised me there's no TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System) kind of warning system for overspeeds at such a severe speed reduction.  Possibly not considered necessary with the braking ability of modern trams, but as this incident has shown it can still be fatal and it would only take the driver to micro-sleep at the wrong time or lose concentration in some other regard for something like this to potentially happen.

[ChrisB]

From ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)'s first monthly newsletter

Finally, our thoughts are with the people and families involved in the incident in Croydon yesterday on Tramlink. ORR has opened an investigation into the circumstances, under our health and safety powers.

I wonder whether this & RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch)'s report will be published simultaneously? Otherwise I guess one might influence the other? Might be a delaying factor?

[Bmblbzzz]

If the tram is classed as a road vehicle then presumably there would be no more speed reduction equipment than you'd find on a road, ie warning signs and at most rumble strips. But then if it was classed as a road vehicle, this incident wouldn't be investigated by RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch).

[stuving]

If the tram is classed as a road vehicle then presumably there would be no more speed reduction equipment than you'd find on a road, ie warning signs and at most rumble strips. But then if it was classed as a road vehicle, this incident wouldn't be investigated by RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch).

That only makes sense if there is a unique tram-classifying authority. But lots of people/organisations can hand out their own classes for their own purposes.

[chrisr_75]

If the tram is classed as a road vehicle then presumably there would be no more speed reduction equipment than you'd find on a road, ie warning signs and at most rumble strips. But then if it was classed as a road vehicle, this incident wouldn't be investigated by RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch).

And the alleged offence would be causing death by dangerous or careless driving rather than manslaughter

[Tim]

If the tram is classed as a road vehicle then presumably there would be no more speed reduction equipment than you'd find on a road, ie warning signs and at most rumble strips. But then if it was classed as a road vehicle, this incident wouldn't be investigated by RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch).

And the alleged offence would be causing death by dangerous or careless driving rather than manslaughter

...not necessarily.  You can be charged with manslaughter as a result of a death caused by your driving.  It is usually reserved for the worst incidents, but it does happen.  The driver of the out of control truck that killed four people in Bath recently was arrested on suspicion of BOTH causing death by dangerous driving and manslaughter by gross negligence.   A 28-year-old man (who I take to be the owner or operator of the truck or someone otherwise involved with maintenance) was also arrested on suspicion of manslaughter by gross negligence.

[grahame]

A lot more from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - including some stuff I've not seen before:  http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-37932744 ... I'm seeing this from outside the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) - not sure what's on bbc.co.uk

Croydon tram crash: First victim named as Dane Chinnery

Police have confirmed six men and one woman died in the Croydon tram crash, which also injured more than 50 people.
The crash, just after 06:00 GMT on Wednesday, saw the tram derail as it negotiated a sharp bend in the track.
The 42-year-old driver, from Beckenham, has been released on police bail following his arrest on suspicion of manslaughter.
One victim of the crash has been named as 19-year-old Dane Chinnery.
Barbara Dumbleton, a family friend, said Mr Chinnery was "a beautiful lad" who "always had a smile on his face... he was absolutely lovely."
Tributes also poured in for Crystal Palace fan on social media.
One described him as "an amazing happy outgoing person who will always be remembered".
Another read: "Hearts been broken today. Dane is the funniest boy I've ever met in my life. If anyone ever needed anything he'd be there doing all he can to help."
Martin Giles, headteacher at Mr Chinnery's former school Meridian High, said staff and students "have been heartbroken to hear that a former student died".
He said the school believed "at least three other former students have also been injured."
"All of the staff in the school shares their pain at this difficult time," he said.
Tom Dale, who was on the tram when it crashed, said he saw Mr Chinnery as he boarded.
"It was like walking out of a war zone," the 20-year-old chef said.
Mr Dale, who was badly bruised in the crash, said of Mr Chinnery: "He was just a friendly, genuine lad, did no harm to nobody really.
"No-one deserves for this to happen to them."
London's only tram is part of the daily routine for people travelling to work or school in this part of the city.
A day after the tragedy on the tracks, locals are trying to comprehend what happened.
"Someone must have been saying a prayer for me and my neighbour," said Con O'Sullivan. "I came to the stop a bit early and my neighbour slept in. I should have been on that tram."
"My nephew was on that tram," said another woman heading to work. "He is OK physically but so traumatised. We just cannot get our head around what happened."
While the community mourns, there is a sombre determination from many.
"It was wrong place, wrong time for those poor people," said another local woman. "It is terrible but we have to get up and go to work, what else can we do?"

Crystal Palace issued a statement saying the football club's "prayers are with his [Mr Chinnery's] family and with all the friends and relatives of those victims that have been affected."
It added: "The club wishes a full and speedy recovery to the many people who suffered injuries.
"This was a terrible event in the heart of Croydon and we stand with the community at this difficult time."
British Transport Police (BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)) said it was "working with the coroner to identify the seven people" who died.
Asst Ch Con Robin Smith said police would only be able to confirm whether all bodies had been moved from the wreckage "once we've been able to right the carriages".
BTP added it will investigate earlier complaints from passengers about drivers speeding on the corner where the tram derailed.
The Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch)) said the tram, which had been travelling from New Addington to Wimbledon, derailed as it was negotiating a "sharp, left-hand curve" which has a speed limit of 12mph.
The RAIB said it had been travelling at a "significantly higher speed" than is allowed.
Police expect the crash site to remain sealed off until at least Thursday evening as forensics teams examine the scene.
A BTP investigator said "a number of factors", including whether the driver had fallen asleep or blacked out, were being examined as possible causes.
First Group, which operates the Croydon tram on behalf of Transport for London, said it was "shocked and saddened by what happened".
It's chief executive officer Tim O'Toole said: "We have comprehensive safety processes and controls in place for all our operating companies.
"The cause of yesterday's incident has not yet been determined. It is absolutely essential that we find out exactly what happened yesterday and this could take some time."
London Ambulance Service said a total of 51 injured casualties taken to two hospitals, with eight having serious or life-threatening injuries.
London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who visited the crash site on Wednesday, warned the number of dead may increase.
He added that the Union Jack flag at City Hall has been flying at half-mast as a mark of respect for all those who lost their lives or were injured.
Trams are not fitted with any safety protection systems to apply brakes automatically if they are going too fast, according to the Office of Rail and Road.
Some passengers said the tram failed to slow down in its usual place at a bend on the track.
Kevin Snow, 57, from Barnsley, South Yorkshire, said: "Usually as you come out the tunnel you feel the brakes, but I didn't seem to at all.
"I thought 'he should be braking in a minute'," he said. "The next thing I knew we were on our side.
"Everyone was screaming and shouting, a lot of people were injured - lots couldn't move."
He said the carriages slid for eight to 10 seconds before coming to a halt.
Passenger Martin Bamford, 30, from Croydon, said "everyone just literally went flying", adding that people were screaming and there was "blood everywhere".
Speaking outside Croydon University Hospital, where he was treated for fractured or broken ribs, Mr Bamford said: "There was a woman that was on top of me... I don't think she made it at all. She wasn't responsive."
Asked about the driver, he said: "I asked him if he was OK. He said 'yeah'. I said to him 'what happened?' He said he thinks he blacked out."
St George's Hospital in Tooting said three patients "are continuing to be looked after by our surgical and medical teams" after under going surgery.
The hospital said on Wednesday it treated four seriously injured victims and 16 walking wounded.
Clinical director Dr Phil Moss said three had undergone surgery and could be kept in for "several days or even weeks".
Croydon University Hospital's medical director Dr Nnenna Osuji said the derailment had been "distressing" and led to "very challenging circumstances" for hospital staff.
Croydon Tramlink
London's only tram network operates from Wimbledon to Beckenham Junction, Elmers End and New Addington, via Croydon
It is run by Tram Operations Limited, a subsidiary of First Group
Transport for London is responsible for tram frequency, overall performance, maintenance and improvement work
The network began operation in May 2000 as Croydon Tramlink, becoming the first tram system in London since 1952
More than 27 million passengers used the service in 2015/16
The 17-mile (28km) network consists of 39 stops
Until 1951, trams in Croydon ran along the A23 before they were shut down to make space for more road traffic