XC December 2017 timetable consultation

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

An opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to use the path by introducing a new service from 21017, perhaps starting back at Westbury.

Could utilise rolling stock from the Thames Valley cascade.

Oh, wait a minute...

I didn't think the cascade had been delayed that much 

Ahh. I of course meant 2017. But the government definitions of 'paused' and 'deferred'...

[paul7575]

Though it's a complete waste sending a voyager to and from Guildford every day for a handful of passengers...

It does maintain a significant chunk of route knowledge for regular diversions, because it runs directly from/to Eastleigh depot via Fareham and Havant.   If they still have to regularly practice that for the few weeks it happens every year, it may still need to run through empty?

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Good point, Paul.

[readytostart]

The Bath starter has only been in the timetable since 2010. Introduced solely as an ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) raid and not to provide improved journey oportunities. I guess the finances of this have been marginal.

It was introduced shortly after XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) appointed a new production director, who lived in.... Bath! Nice through journey to Birmingham and the office! Has been for the chop for a few timetable changes now being a once a day in one direction only service.

[ChrisB]

Richard Gibson, Director of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) communications spent the morning at Railfuture's conference listed elsewhere. Other than highlight the consultation, there were no questions public as he wasn't speaking

[IndustryInsider]

So the director of communications wasn't speaking...? 

[Adelante_CCT]

The way they have paragraphed it is a bit misleading in places eg:

[Note: A new service would be provided departing Reading at 06:52, arriving into Southampton at 07:44 and Bournemouth at 08:14.The removal of calls at Guildford would affect the following services:
■ 06:02 Guildford to ......

This would suggest that the removal of the Guildford stop makes way for this new 06:52 service. Incorrect, the 06:52 is simply the 08:45 from Bournemouth doing an additional early trip, with the former 06:02 from Guildford starting at Reading instead. As Paul has suggested this could still run ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) via Guildford, and/or possibly run as a double unit from Eastleigh to Reading forming both the 06:45 & 06:52. Bit disappointing the 18:08 arrival from Newcastle cant then continue on southwards or do something more useful than running ECS to Eastleigh.

[paul7575]

This would suggest that the removal of the Guildford stop makes way for this new 06:52 service. Incorrect, the 06:52 is simply the 08:45 from Bournemouth doing an additional early trip, with the former 06:02 from Guildford starting at Reading instead. As Paul has suggested this could still run ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) via Guildford, and/or possibly run as a double unit from Eastleigh to Reading forming both the 06:45 & 06:52. Bit disappointing the 18:08 arrival from Newcastle cant then continue on southwards or do something more useful than running ECS to Eastleigh.

I was equally puzzled by this, because on the face of it the withdrawal of the Guildford calls doesn't directly provide for anything else to happen.  The morning change doesn't allow for much else, other than perhaps another very early Winchester to Reading off-pattern service - for which there may be very little demand, and of course the train crew other than the driver might be an issue.

Extending the 1808 arrival through to Southampton (or even Eastleigh) via Basingstoke and Winchester would have an obvious benefit in maintaining the 2 hourly pattern of Southampton extensions similar to the rest of the day, but the problem may well be line capacity at that time between Basingstoke and Southampton.   For a couple of timetables before it was diverted to form the early evening Guildford terminating service, it did run to Eastleigh in service, and before that you may recall it ran to Southampton via Andover and Romsey which delayed it so much very few used it - staff used to recommend changing at Basingstoke.    But all in all the current plans suggest a unit spare for about 6 hours - it could even run a Reading to Southampton and back to Reading, then empty to depot and all in the usual timings.

Originally the southbound Guildford extension was much later at night (and presumably had even less passengers), I think the empty unit didn't get back to Eastleigh until after midnight.

Paul

[John R]

The Bath starter has only been in the timetable since 2010. Introduced solely as an ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) raid and not to provide improved journey oportunities. I guess the finances of this have been marginal.

It may not have been introduced to provide improved journey opportunities (how cynical of you to suggest that it wasn't introduced to provide an improvement though!  ) but it does provide an earlier arrival by nearly half an hour into Bristol, and no less than two hours earlier into Plymouth.   It seems ironic to me that at a time the people of Plymouth are campaigning for earlier arrivals, CrossCountry are proposing to make the first arrival possible there from Bath Spa (big place - 6 million rail journeys a year and in the South West) 2 hours later; I still don't see what my alternative that they say is available in their consultation document actually is (I use this service sometimes). Travel down the night before and stay in a hotel?  Drive?

I guess a salient point is that this isn't a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) route, they tried (for whatever reason) an early morning service, but now want to drop it (for whatever reason).  If there is a demand for an earlier first service between Bath and Bristol then it's really the responsibility of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to provide it.  Actually having the service enables there to be clear evidence to demonstrate over the next year whether or not such a service is justified by looking at passenger numbers.

[Rapidash]

The numbers they have for Paignton services are laughable. The 1007 has routinely been busy/full and standing for as long as I've used it (about a decade) rain or shine, February, August or November

It's the first off-peak fast service to Exeter and Bristol for us - it's virtually impossible for it not to be busy!

88 my left wossname!

[Zoe]

The numbers they have for Paignton services are laughable. The 1007 has routinely been busy/full and standing for as long as I've used it (about a decade) rain or shine, February, August or November

How many are travelling beyond Exeter though?  The consultation suggests that anyone travelling from Paignton who still wishes to travel on this train to destinatioins beyond Exeter can use a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) metro service and change at Exeter.

[Rapidash]

It dumps half at Exeter, and reloads with similar numbers in my experience.

The Metro is slow, reliable and gets delayed by high speed services getting delayed on the Banks - hence why people jump on one of the very few high speed services available to us without changing. The Paddington services are also stoppers so.... XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) get the lions share of Bristol bound pax.

[LiskeardRich]

I travelled on the evening service they are saying has an average of 12 passengers. my coach alone was 80+% seats full. I don't believe the rest was empty.
Its easy to manipulate stats to look how you want them. Do the head counts on a Tuesday and Wednesday in winter and its probably empty in the evenings. Do them on a Friday In summer and its full.
The service I used saw no ticket check, I was travelling on a return portion so would have gone unacknowledged with no ticket purchased just before travel, as I imagine most passengers are on an evening.

[grahame]

Operationally, occasional daytime off-cycle services are a darned nuisance.  Extending a train from Plymouth to Newquay or Penzance, or from Exeter to Paignton, Reading to Guildford or Bristol to Bath or Cardiff means that during the day there's no train left at Plymouth / Exeter / Reading / Bristol to form a clock-face return working, then a bit later when the extension has been run and returned there are two.   

At the tail end (or head) of the day, it may be a bit different and there could be useful depot facilities at the end of the line (Penzance) ... with continuity of journey late in the day attracting passengers, the train filling in gaps in a fading evening local service.  First think in the morning, when there's no incoming train to worry about, a though train to distant places will attract long distance peak fares, and be operationally convenient.

Finally, if you have a capacity issue in your "core" territory, cutting out the daytime occasional extensions releases the train(s) involved for use through the core at times the capacity is needed / included in statistics, so you can announce a further timetable enhancement story of more seats through XXX without the need for and more physical seats on your stock.

This may read a bit anti-XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), but should they be providing the gap-fillers with these occasional trains, or should such be run locally?  As they're mostly non-peak service concerned, this is perhaps a question for the writers of the SLCs^▸ (Service Level Commitment) at the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Note - to take into account too, the huge loss of traffic between "X" and "Z" if people have to change at "Y" on the way - I have seen 40% to 46% quoted.   And it follows that where the same stock is routinely used from X to Y and from Y to Z, consideration should be given to running through services, even where it means different TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) working together.

[paul7575]

Finally, if you have a capacity issue in your "core" territory, cutting out the daytime occasional extensions releases the train(s) involved for use through the core at times the capacity is needed / included in statistics, so you can announce a further timetable enhancement story of more seats through XXX without the need for and more physical seats on your stock.

I've said as much in the past regarding the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Brighton services.    One of the RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) consultation points a few years ago suggested that using a longer DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) (3 vice 2 car) would help with peak capacity into and out of Brighton, so I wrote to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and suggested that using a 4 or 8 car Southern EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) all the way to and from Southampton would be even more use...

Regarding the evening Guildford extension that currently runs to Eastleigh depot fairly early, and looks as if it might run to a depot (assumed to still be Eastleigh) a bit earlier next December, at least there is still a northbound train from Reading in the normal pattern half an hour later which would be the last northbound from Southampton (to York) through Reading at about 1840.   So that unit going off to Guildford doesn't actually cause a gap in the northbound service.

Paul