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Author Topic: First bus Saturday services-shouldn't Saturday terms and conditions apply ?  (Read 3039 times)
chuffed
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« on: December 26, 2016, 08:18:52 pm »

First are running Saturday services on weekdays throughout this week.To my way of thinking, concessionary passes should be available all day, as they are on Saturdays Sundays and public holidays the rest of the year. What do others think ?
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grahame
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2016, 09:04:07 pm »

First are running Saturday services on weekdays throughout this week.To my way of thinking, concessionary passes should be available all day, as they are on Saturdays Sundays and public holidays the rest of the year. What do others think ?

Concessionary pass availability is set by your local transport authority - that would be Wiltshire where I live. Legally they must provide it from 09:30 to 23:00 Monday to Friday and at all times weekends and d=bank holidays.  They are the ones who would need to make a decision to extend the scheme to cover this week.

Many bus services are run "commercially" - bit of a joke in that they get BSOG and lots of concessionary fare payments from the council to help them break even make a profit, and for those services the decision on when to run (when they can make money based on the farebox plus the extra statutory payments of BSOG and ENCTS is made by the bus operator.

Remaining bus services are "subsidised" - filling gaps where no-one's prepared to run commercially, but the transport authority feels there's need for a service, and is prepared to back up that feeling with an extra support payment in addition to BSOG and ENCTS.   The times of buses, and whether or not they accept ENCTS outside legal minimum hours, and what timetables they run this week, are all going to be part of the subsidy agreement and goodness knows who your should ask about it.

It's not unusual for subsidised services to accept ENCTS journeys a few minutes before 09:30 where the service in question only runs very infrequently, and if First is running such a subsidised service to a Saturday timetable this week that pushes it from after 09:30 to before 09:30 at your local stop then you have an excellent case for having it accept ENCTS early. You would need to get your local council officers to agree and inform the bus company, and I suspect if you email them you may get an "out of office until 3rd January" response, which gives you plenty of tim to get it set up for next year if timetables haven't changed by then.
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TonyK
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2016, 11:17:40 pm »

I found ENCTS - English National Concessionary Travel Scheme - in the list of abbreviations. I'm blowed if I can find BSOG, nor work it out, unless it's a toilet for dyslexic passengers.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2016, 11:41:29 pm »

The Bus Service Operators Grant. A partial refund of fuel duty, enabling operators to provide sustainable returns to shareholders socially necessary public transport.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Service_Operators_Grant
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grahame
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2016, 12:17:32 am »

I found ENCTS - English National Concessionary Travel Scheme - in the list of abbreviations. I'm blowed if I can find BSOG, nor work it out, unless it's a toilet for dyslexic passengers.

The Bus Service Operators Grant. A partial refund of fuel duty, enabling operators to provide sustainable returns to shareholders socially necessary public transport.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Service_Operators_Grant

Sorry and thank you.  I've gotten so involved in buses that I forget others haven't.
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TonyK
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2016, 09:59:14 am »

Sorry and thank you.  I've gotten so involved in buses that I forget others haven't.

Oh dear...
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brompton rail
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2016, 11:07:33 am »

Well, where I live -South Yorkshire- the PTE announced (on their website & probably on 'Festive Travel' leaflet) that Bus Passes are valid all day between Monday 26th and Monday 2nd. This also covers Sheffield Supertram. For SY residents only there is a further concession that the Pass allows half fare rail travel on Northern services only from start of service to finish with no peak fares applicable ( these are relaxed for all passengers).

That's the good news, the bad is that (apart from very few routes in Sheffield) there were no buses on Boxing Day, and New Years Day, Sunday service today (27th) and Jan 2nd, and Saturday frequencies Wednesday to Saturday (where buses end by 18.00).

Incidentally I noticed that Stagecoach in Cheltenham operated regular services (on town routes at least) all day yesterday (Boxing Day).

Every incentive to keep folks out of their cars!😀
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TonyK
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2016, 11:31:38 am »

I had a couple of drinks. It was all I needed to keep me out of the car.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 12:12:54 am »

I've now added Bus Service Operators Grant to the Coffee Shop forum's list of abbreviationsWink
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chuffed
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2018, 01:13:50 pm »

I started this thread in December 2016. We now have 'Saturday services' right up to January 5th on Firstbus services and they have still not addressed this issue. South Yorkshire PTE are leading the way by lifting all restrictions on concessionary passes right across the Christmas period. So how about it, Mr James 'Scrooge' Freeman ?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 01:20:45 pm by chuffed » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2018, 01:17:10 pm »

I started this thread in December 2106. We now have 'Saturday services' right up to January 5th on Firstbus services and they have still not addressed this issue. South Yorkshire PTE are leading the way by lifting all restrictions on concessionary passes right across the Christmas period. So how about it, Mr James 'Scrooge' Freeman ?

Not in time for this holiday season, but I will ask at the Bath Bath User Panel on 22nd January.
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 01:21:41 pm »

I started this thread in December 2106.


From the future?
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TonyK
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2018, 09:07:59 am »

My time machine isn't working properly, but I should have it fixed by last Christmas...
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Reginald25
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2018, 09:52:46 am »

To be absolutely objective, the Saturday based timetable and the ENCS, are independent. In Wilts, they have chosen to offer the free fares at all quieter times (whether working weekday, bank holiday or weekend) - but just because the bus company is running to weekend times, doesn't mean that it's 'off-peak'.
In practice of course, most of us think of the holiday as starting Friday 21st December to Monday 2nd January and expect fares to charged to bank holiday rules. I'm not sure what the financial implications are for the councils/central government and for the operators (ENCS travel is refunded at a lower rate than fare box prices) but I'd rather a Saturday bus service throughout the period with chargeable early morning buses, than no  buses at all.
Interestingly, rail journeys I looked at  for 27th December on GWR were off peak all day. Whether that is to compensate for the reduced service due to eng works or just an attempt to get more seats in use at a quiet time, I don't know.
 

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plymothian
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2018, 11:37:09 am »


Interestingly, rail journeys I looked at  for 27th December on GWR were off peak all day. Whether that is to compensate for the reduced service due to eng works or just an attempt to get more seats in use at a quiet time, I don't know.
 

Generally during "Christmas week" (usually the Monday before Christmas Day until 1 January inclusive) on the railways all ticket restrictions are lifted. Some exceptions apply. Minimum railcard fares still apply Mon - Fri excluding bank holidays.
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