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Author Topic: 1983 Serpell report - where rail could have gone  (Read 9991 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2016, 10:09:15 pm »

There are now no scheduled passenger services over the west curve as the Cross-Country trains reverse in the main station but there are essentially hourly container trains in both directions between Southampton and the Midlands.

I was picking up on line sections that have lost their passenger service ... may be somewhat esoteric and indeed not suggesting that the lines themselves have gone.   In some cases, a footnote rather than a concern at a loss.
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grahame
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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 05:39:18 am »

Happy to edit the list if you think it worthwhile.

Yes, please ... a good reference, but no huge hurry as I suspect there are still a handful of others; here are some more possibles from me:

Gone
... Lincoln St Mark's
... Abercynon North
... Smethwick West
... Farringdon to Moorgate via Barbican
... Manchester United Football Ground
... for completeness of the list, is it worth listing other intermediate stations on lines closed?

Arrived
... Okehampton
... Aylesbury Vale Parkway
... Newcastle to Metro Centre via Dunston
... Stansted Airport

Rose Grove to Hebden Bridge and Chippenham to Trowbridge; neither line officially closed, I don't think ... just down to a bare minimum of services (like 1 each way per day, high season summer Saturdays only!)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 07:35:29 am by grahame » Logged

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John R
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2016, 09:08:41 am »

Happy to edit the list if you think it worthwhile.

Yes, please ... a good reference, but no huge hurry as I suspect there are still a handful of others; here are some more possibles from me:

Gone
... Lincoln St Mark's
... Abercynon North
... Smethwick West
... Farringdon to Moorgate via Barbican
... Manchester United Football Ground
... for completeness of the list, is it worth listing other intermediate stations on lines closed?

Arrived
... Okehampton
... Aylesbury Vale Parkway
... Newcastle to Metro Centre via Dunston
... Stansted Airport

Rose Grove to Hebden Bridge and Chippenham to Trowbridge; neither line officially closed, I don't think ... just down to a bare minimum of services (like 1 each way per day, high season summer Saturdays only!)
I think you illustrate the issue in getting a definitive list. If you look at the timetable map of the era, the former was shown, even though the service was as described, but the latter wasn't.  And then do you include the Clitheroe to Hellifield line as open, because of summer weekend DalesRail services? 

I'm inclined to the view that a timetabled passenger service at least once a week throughout the year is probably a reasonable benchmark. That would exclude some of the closures shown (typically football stations), although a little judgement will be used as to what is appropriate.

We've also forgotten the Manchester Airport branch, opened as recently as 1993 and now carrying around 3.5m passengers a year!

I'll wait to see if we get any more suggestions and then update the list accordingly.

 
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2016, 09:59:15 am »

I can remember those dark days of the Serpell report it dented the moral of most railwaymen especially those who went through the Beeching era ...................... however Serpell was not as depressing as to what was to come 10 years later.

Beeching, Serpell, Laidlaw, Richard Brown, Nicola Shaw ................ over 50 years of reports an these are the ones I can recall sure there have been others and yet the folk who commissioned them all of them cannot, still, come up with a long term strategy for the UK (United Kingdom) railways
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« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2016, 03:06:13 pm »

Has anyone mentioned the  Robin Hood Line reopened tunnel at Annesley plus reopened stations?

What about the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) new stations near to old some shut as early as WW1.

Also London Overground  Split Outer Circle. via East London line, South London Line, West London Line and North London Line.

Mention of curves one that shouldn't have shut is Bradford North Loop. 

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PhilWakely
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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 03:18:50 pm »

One Tory politician that we do actually have a lot to be thankful for is the Late Tony Speller. He was the North Devon MP (Member of Parliament) who unseated Jeremy Thorpe. A lot of the post 1983 reopenings (lines and stations) were down to Tony Speller MP and the Transport Act 1962 (Amendment) that was passed in 1982 (known as the Speller Act) . This enabled many stations (mine at Pinhoe was the first, Melksham in 1985 and another of Grahame's favourites - Sugar Loaf - also) to be (re-)opened on an experimental basis. A considerable number remain open today - see here
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 04:38:33 pm by PhilWakely » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 03:44:34 pm »

Mention of curves one that shouldn't have shut is Bradford North Loop. 

Agreed though its service saw sparse enough to be listed in the original "Passenger Train Services over Unusual Lines" from the summer of 1963 via http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm :

Quote
Bradford Junction North -Bradford Junction West (26ch.)
8-26 a.m. SX Calne—Bristol Temple Meads
8-30 a.m. SO Calne—Bristol Temple Meads
5-25 p.m. SX Melksham—Bradford-on-Avon
7-15 a.m. Bradford-on-Avon—Chippenham
3-55 p.m. SX Bristol Temple Meads—Melksham

As a diversionary route, it would be very useful today.  As a line with a regular service , the sparseness of service such as this in today's environment would make it very hard to cover enough of the flows wanting to use the route, and trains such as these would eat into other paths available up to Thingley Junction.

The curve was taken out as late at 1990, but I have not suggested it for the listing as passenger services had ceased long before that, and it's a pretty short stretch of line with equivalent passenger journeys possible with a change of train at Trowbridge.

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ChrisB
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 04:01:40 pm »

London Overground  Split Outer Circle. via East London line, South London Line, West London Line and North London Line.

Hmmm - LO took over these lines & there was no break of service technically - trains for other trains.
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John R
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2016, 04:49:09 pm »

Has anyone mentioned the  Robin Hood Line reopened tunnel at Annesley plus reopened stations?

What about the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) new stations near to old some shut as early as WW1.

Also London Overground  Split Outer Circle. via East London line, South London Line, West London Line and North London Line.

Mention of curves one that shouldn't have shut is Bradford North Loop. 


Thanks for the suggestions. Responding in order,
Yes, the Robin Hood line is on the list (Nottingham to Worksop)
The list of openings purposely doesn't include metro style operations, else it would get too big, although where it directly replaced a National Rail service (e.g. the Bury branch) that is acknowledged by virtue of being on the second list of closures.
The WLL wasn't open north of Kensington back in 1983 (and was a pretty sparse service south of that). That reopening is already listed and predated the overground.  The ELL is more complex and I think could be included north of Shoreditch. Thanks.
As previously mentioned, I'm not including curves as they rarely have a material impact on passengers, and to my mind are a level down in importance.
 

 
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grahame
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2016, 05:02:05 pm »

More doubtful cases ... sorry, John R ...

Wolverhampton to Walsall direct service. Absent, re-introduced, now parliamentary?

Motherwell via Coatbridge and Cumbernauld up to Stirling.   Any absences of service to record as closures / openings?

Waterloo International to Brixton.

Selby to York - what's happened there?

Also wondered about New Holland Pier and New Holland Town, but they were lost just before Serpell ...
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John R
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2016, 06:07:15 pm »

Thanks Grahame

Again, in order:-

Not included, as was not running in 1983.

The lines around Motherwell are complex, and in 1983 The Clansman offered a daily service from the WCML (West Coast Main Line) to Inverness along the route you describe. So technically the route described wouldn't count, although the local services now are to all intents and purposes a new service that should be included.  However, that does remind me that I forgot the Whifflet to Rutherglen branch, which is definitely a new service.

I'd probably regard it as a "curve", and given it has both opened and closed during the period wouldn't count.

The ECML (East Coast Main Line) was closed between Selby and Chaloners Whin Junction (just south of York) in 1983 and replaced by a new railway from Temple Hirst Jn to Colton Jn. The closure was because the Selby coalfield then being developed was expected to cause excessive subsidence on the existing railway.  Just 21 years later the "new" coalfield was completely closed. As no stations were closed, it is still possible to get a train from Selby to York, and the new routing for the ECML is faster I'd say that's enough reason to be excluded.

Yes, closed in 1981. 

I'm also aware that the standard routing for cross country trains between Sheffield and York via Normanton changed at some point in the 80s, with much of the previous route south of Normanton now lifted. After this they were routed via Doncaster, and more and more now go via Leeds.
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