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Author Topic: Cross country cancellations through Dawlish 26/1/17  (Read 4572 times)
TaplowGreen
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« on: January 26, 2017, 02:29:42 pm »

http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/trains-to-plymouth-cancelled-because-dawlish-can-t-cope-with-the-wind/story-30088979-detail/story.html
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bobm
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 02:49:18 pm »

Silly headline - Dawlish can cope quite well with the wind - it is the XC voyagers which can't.   Grin
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AMLAG
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 04:31:45 pm »

Yes once again several Cross Country ' Voyager' DMU operated trains cancelled ( both ways) west of Exeter St D due SE winds of above about 15mph at times of High tides causing waves 'over topping' the Dawlish sea wall.
Thus causing delays of generally at least one hour ( through instead using the expected unaffected gWr trains) to hundreds of passengers' planned journeys and in some cases aborted train journeys.
This is now, and has regretably been for somewhile a standard Cross Country train's operating instructions and disruption procedure.

Has an assurance been given that the new electro-diesel Bi-mode trains being introduced
by First Rail's gWr TOC will not also suffer problems with the ingress of salt water into their equipment ?
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bignosemac
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 04:58:31 pm »

Class 800 series have been specified with particular regard to atmospheric conditions on coastal routes.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 07:26:56 pm »

Although that was in the specification, I wonder how much practical testing of that aspect has even been possible - even in simulated conditions.
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plymothian
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2017, 08:08:34 am »

It's imposed on XC by Network Rail during certain weather conditions due to the risk of strandings.

With regards to the Class 80x, the design spec states they must be able to cope.  800001 has been down here for testing but not during overtopping conditions - probably because they don't want the publicity if it gets stranded!
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rogerpatenall
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 10:16:22 am »

Quote: "Class 800 series have been specified with particular regard to atmospheric conditions on coastal routes."

Wouldn't be the first attempt at an Atmospheric Railway at that location, I believe. . .
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 03:11:48 pm »

With regards to the Class 80x, the design spec states they must be able to cope.  800001 has been down here for testing but not during overtopping conditions - probably because they don't want the publicity if it gets stranded!

Indeed, two trips have been cancelled on nights when such conditions existed - coincidental? Similarly, one night when it was supposed to do a couple of shuttles between Newton Abbot and Plymouth, the test was aborted - purely coincidental that a couple of GWR HSTs on either side suffered severe wheel slip because of 'leaves on the line'?
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stuving
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 07:57:22 pm »

With regards to the Class 80x, the design spec states they must be able to cope.  800001 has been down here for testing but not during overtopping conditions - probably because they don't want the publicity if it gets stranded!

Indeed, two trips have been cancelled on nights when such conditions existed - coincidental? Similarly, one night when it was supposed to do a couple of shuttles between Newton Abbot and Plymouth, the test was aborted - purely coincidental that a couple of GWR HSTs on either side suffered severe wheel slip because of 'leaves on the line'?

I can't see that having a problem with the trials train would be more embarrassing that with one in service. Of course that would depend on what that problem was, though stranding would not be a major issue during the night or with a rescuer standing by.

I suspect there is a trials plan, and bad weather isn't included at this stage. That seems short-sighted to me, in that bad weather doesn't happen to order and you need to go out and exploit it whenever it turns up. But they probably do know their business better than I do.

But in any case (I hear you ask) class 800 isn't meant for this route, is it? We have not heard of any difference in this respect between them and class 802, but that doesn't rule it out.

Now, the requirement does call for operation in water spray:

Quote
TS1983 Full Functionality of the IEP Trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed surfaces, components and equipment.

But that doesn't say how much. Environmental conditions are also cited by this (BS EN texts not available free of charge):

Quote
N078 The IEP Trains must, subject to the temperature ranges and specific conditions identified in this section, be able to achieve Full Functionality in all weather conditions specified in sections 4.1 to 4.11 inclusive of BS EN50125-1:1999 “Railway Applications – Environment Conditions for Equipment – Part 1:Equipment on Board Rolling Stock”. With respect to clause 4.2, altitude class A2 (up to 1000m above sea level) shall apply.

And then here is the catch-all:

Quote
TS1824 The IEP Trains must be able to maintain Full Functionality while operating over the IEP Network under all infrastructure conditions (other than infrastructure failures).

And what is the IEP Network? It comes in parts, and for the GWR order the "Great Western IEP Network" is defined by listing route sections by ELR and chainage in (deep breath) Appendix A to Part C of Schedule 1 of the Great Western IEP Network Train Availability and Reliability Agreement (TARA). Basically, it's the whole of the rail network operated primarily by GWR. Explicitly, it includes the whole Main Line to Penzance  (MLN1-4) with Dawlish in MLN1.

It is possible there are some alternative designs of cover for the roof-mounted train components, such as the braking resistor. These might be tried out on 802s to see which is best. But then I think it's quite possible to make a train that can keep running with the brake resistors unserviceable. It only serves to reduce the heat dumped into the brake discs when stopping from high speed, and that shouldn't be an issue on the run through Dawlish. At worst it would mean a speed limit until the unit is serviced.
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1st fan
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 04:47:26 pm »

I have a former client/customer who was on the 1C11 train which was supposed to get to Plymouth at 08:33 before the cancellations kicked in. He ended up getting that train and then swapping to the 08:14 GWR sprinter service at EXD. Sent me a text at lunchtime to ask why the £$(#!=% cross country trains were not running but the GWR ones were. Then another one shortly afterwards asking if the new electric trains would suffer the same fate. My response was no idea wait and see.

My experiences of Dawlish running when the weather has been a bit exciting has seen more than a few gallons of salt water dumped on the HST. Not sure I'd class this as spray as per the IEP specs or even a shower, more like a torrential deluge!

Quote from: plymothian
Insert Quote
It's imposed on XC by Network Rail during certain weather conditions due to the risk of strandings.

With regards to the Class 80x, the design spec states they must be able to cope.  800001 has been down here for testing but not during overtopping conditions - probably because they don't want the publicity if it gets stranded!
I agree about the adverse publicity if a test train is stranded.
Quote from: stuving
I can't see that having a problem with the trials train would be more embarrassing that with one in service. Of course that would depend on what that problem was, though stranding would not be a major issue during the night or with a rescuer standing by.

I suspect there is a trials plan, and bad weather isn't included at this stage. That seems short-sighted to me, in that bad weather doesn't happen to order and you need to go out and exploit it whenever it turns up. But they probably do know their business better than I do.
As you say might look a lot sillier though if a passenger service is stranded and they have to admit they haven't done running on a 'windy and wet' day (say up to Blue level* warning) before launching passenger services.

*Voyagers don't run under a blue level (or higher) warning. All other trains can run with a blue warning in place with no problems.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 05:47:59 pm by 1st fan » Logged
LiskeardRich
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 07:31:52 am »

I was at Penzance yesterday and the sea was over the top of my hst inbound. Hst picked up a pair of network rail staff near the old marazion station. I later realised those two staff were travelling on every service through long rock and Penzance sea wall.
There was a 0935 Penzance to Newton abbot voyager which left around 0945.
Friend and I were placing bets how far out of Penzance the voyager would die, but pleased to say it made it out!
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phile
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 05:48:24 pm »

The Voyager Dawlish allergy manifests itself again tonight and tomorrow
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bobm
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 10:28:48 am »

This was Teignmouth an hour after high tide this morning.



The late running 07:06 from London Paddington to Penzance slows to drop the Network Rail pilotman off at the end of the seawall.



Looking the other way - and out of the spray!

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old original
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 06:16:58 am »

Cancelled again this morning...
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7 Billion people on a wet rock - of course we're not happy
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