Incomplete Oyster journeys cost commuters over £53 million last year

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From News Shopper

Stations around south London and north Surrey have ranked as some of the worst for charging commuters who fail to tap in and out properly.

Transport for London (TfL^» (Transport for London - about)) statistics show that incomplete Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) journeys cost travellers over £53 million between January and September last year.

The overground stations at Waterloo and Victoria charged the most overall, raking in £1.83 million and £1.35 million respectively, but other stations a little closer to home were also highly ranked.

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[ChrisB]

The vast, bast majority of users using Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)/Contactless *know full well* they need to both tap in & out. So it's either deliberate, or self-forgetfullness that's the cause here. I also suspect most know of the penalty, although its possible a few haven't bothered to find out/read the T&Cs

Why we're supposed to feel (from articles like this one) that they've been hard done by, I'm unsure. There is the ability to request refunds however, and at over £7 a pop, I'm again pretty sure most do.

So the majority of this money is actually fines from those who know to tap in/out, but choose not to. It's hard to find sympathy, IMO^▸ (in my opinion)

[TaplowGreen]

So it's either deliberate, or self-forgetfullness that's the cause here. I also suspect most know of the penalty, although its possible a few haven't bothered to find out/read the T&Cs

Why we're supposed to feel (from articles like this one) that they've been hard done by, I'm unsure. There is the ability to request refunds however, and at over £7 a pop, I'm again pretty sure most do.

So the majority of this money is actually fines from those who know to tap in/out, but choose not to. It's hard to find sympathy, IMO^▸ (in my opinion)

.....you can evidence all those assertions of course, or cite the relevant data to demonstrate its accuracy? 

[ellendune]

I disagree with ChrisB

I have been caught out on one occasion when the barrier was busy because the card was not read - I should have waited for the beep, but it was busy and noisy and I assumed I had not been able to hear it because of the noise -  however the people were moving through so fast that the barrier was not closing so I was able to get through. I am now more careful but I have had to move my card around to get the beep noise on many occasions. This does slow things when it is busy.  

[Fourbee]

I got an incomplete journey once when I had definitely tapped out at Canary Wharf. About a week later I get an email from TfL^» (Transport for London - about) apologising for their systems error and that they had sent the refund to Canary Wharf for me to collect in 7 days. That was of no use to me so I arranged a debit card refund over the phone; they made an exception apparently.

[TaplowGreen]

I disagree with ChrisB

I have been caught out on one occasion when the barrier was busy because the card was not read - I should have waited for the beep, but it was busy and noisy and I assumed I had not been able to hear it because of the noise -  however the people were moving through so fast that the barrier was not closing so I was able to get through. I am now more careful but I have had to move my card around to get the beep noise on many occasions. This does slow things when it is busy.  

Yep me too and I can relate to Fourbee's experience as well.

[didcotdean]

If  Waterloo and Victoria main line stations are top of the list the most likely explanation here are people dumbelling or accessing the train at an open station (a proportion of the latter might be genuine forgetfulness).

Some interchanges do require tapping in/out for the change of mode which aren't necessarily obvious to people, particularly casual users.

[ChrisB]

Some interchanges do require tapping in/out for the change of mode which aren't necessarily obvious to people, particularly casual users.

Indeed, and I forgot about this. However, I was referring to those stations at the top of the list, and these are stations where this doesn't (generally) apply

[grahame]

Bearing in mind there are 95 million entrances and exits at Waterloo underground station per annum, we're looking at a problem that relates to 1.9p per passenger journey made - important, yes, but not a huge proportion of journeys.

Waterloo will be a bigger problem than other stations simply based on volume.   Once Roding Valley's passenger numbers rise to the sort of figures we see for Waterloo, I suspect it will be high up the list too 

[John R]

So it's either deliberate, or self-forgetfullness that's the cause here. I also suspect most know of the penalty, although its possible a few haven't bothered to find out/read the T&Cs

Why we're supposed to feel (from articles like this one) that they've been hard done by, I'm unsure. There is the ability to request refunds however, and at over £7 a pop, I'm again pretty sure most do.

So the majority of this money is actually fines from those who know to tap in/out, but choose not to. It's hard to find sympathy, IMO^▸ (in my opinion)

.....you can evidence all those assertions of course, or cite the relevant data to demonstrate its accuracy? 

Are we not allowed to post opinion on the forum any more without hard data to substantiate it?   

[grahame]

Are we not allowed to post opinion on the forum any more without hard data to substantiate it?   

Opinions and suggestions are the lifeblood of this forum - in my opinion.   I have no scientific analysis of the posts here to back up that opinion.

[ChrisB]

I think John R was referring to TG's post here. I tend to agree with him. It's obviously my opinion.

So it's either deliberate, or self-forgetfullness that's the cause here. I also suspect most know of the penalty, although its possible a few haven't bothered to find out/read the T&Cs

Why we're supposed to feel (from articles like this one) that they've been hard done by, I'm unsure. There is the ability to request refunds however, and at over £7 a pop, I'm again pretty sure most do.

So the majority of this money is actually fines from those who know to tap in/out, but choose not to. It's hard to find sympathy, IMO^▸ (in my opinion)

.....you can evidence all those assertions of course, or cite the relevant data to demonstrate its accuracy? 

[Bmblbzzz]

If  Waterloo and Victoria main line stations are top of the list the most likely explanation here are people dumbelling or accessing the train at an open station (a proportion of the latter might be genuine forgetfulness).

Some interchanges do require tapping in/out for the change of mode which aren't necessarily obvious to people, particularly casual users.

What does dumbelling mean? 

[grahame]

If  Waterloo and Victoria main line stations are top of the list the most likely explanation here are people dumbelling or accessing the train at an open station (a proportion of the latter might be genuine forgetfulness).

Some interchanges do require tapping in/out for the change of mode which aren't necessarily obvious to people, particularly casual users.

What does dumbelling mean? 

It's an illegal practise which I'll describe in frequent posters rather than in public (busy though - will need to be this evening).   Not sure it's what's happening here - will need to think about that.

[chrisr_75]

I just googled for dumbelling (thankfully on my phone, not my work PC - there are a number of different definitions shall we say...!) and I don't think this is what is going with the example from the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter).

I have managed to confuse myself with touching in and out at Paddington a couple of times (there are not enough of the 'standalone' Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) readers for the 'open' platforms or those with gates that only read paper tickets imho) and can confirm that the refund system works very well both online and over the phone - as long as you have registered your Oyster or payment card online and have some vague idea of what your balance should be after a journey or series of journeys. I've also seen that TfL^» (Transport for London - about) will usually email you if there are any incomplete journeys, so they are quite proactive about giving money back.

I would suggest that the non-refunded monies may be from unregistered Oyster/payment cards, people who are either oblivious or don't care about their balance or some kind of dubious practice going on which would be uncovered should a refund be requested, or any combination of the 3.