Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 15:15 29 Mar 2024
* Delays at Dover as millions begin Easter getaway
- Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
* A view from inside ship that hit Baltimore bridge
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
13:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
17:29 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:04 Bedwyn to Newbury
18:26 Newbury to Bedwyn
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
18:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
19:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
19:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
19:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
20:49 Newbury to Bedwyn
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
21:16 Bedwyn to Newbury
21:53 Newbury to Bedwyn
22:25 Bedwyn to Newbury
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
13:50 London Paddington to Great Malvern
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
15:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:15 Penzance to London Paddington
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 15:21:34 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[165] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[71] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[52] Who needs a travel agent these days?
[38] Travel for free on the m2 metrobus - Bristol - 4,5,6 April 202...
[30] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[28] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16
  Print  
Author Topic: First / MTR win South Western franchise 2017 - 2024, and CMA raises competition concerns (merged topic)  (Read 86998 times)
Adelante_CCT
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1314



View Profile
« Reply #195 on: July 12, 2017, 15:15:23 »

First is my bet too, don't know why, just a hunch.
Logged
Southernman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 114


View Profile
« Reply #196 on: July 12, 2017, 23:11:46 »

I'm of the believe the railway are not competing with each other.
Is it really a competing route?
To me natex and megabus are the competition.
I tend to disagree! WAT-EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) has enticed a goodly number of longer distance passengers away from GWR (Great Western Railway), mainly on price but also on frequency (to Yeovil) and general reliability. Sure, bus (limited) and car are competitors and rarely do rail services compete (this case being an exception to the rule!).
But its not only about fares. Its about keeping up standards and maintenance. If First do retain the Greater Western franchise, surely its better to have agreements in writing to refer back to? No, I only expect to see agreement on a cap on fare increases.
Logged
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1450



View Profile
« Reply #197 on: July 13, 2017, 10:29:52 »

But, hypothetically speaking, what if the new GWR (Great Western Railway) franchise had a prospective Newbury, Westbury, Taunton service with a station at Langport/Somerton. Might that abstract from Crewkerne and Yeovil?
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #198 on: July 13, 2017, 10:37:13 »

Also, they might push up the fares / restrict heavily the Advance fares on the GWR (Great Western Railway) mainline as far as EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains), pushing those on a limited budget to having to use the SWT (South West Trains) line to EXD. Could work both ways.
Logged
JayMac
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18897



View Profile
« Reply #199 on: July 13, 2017, 11:23:16 »

But, hypothetically speaking, what if the new GWR (Great Western Railway) franchise had a prospective Newbury, Westbury, Taunton service with a station at Langport/Somerton. Might that abstract from Crewkerne and Yeovil?


Those I know, myself included, living in the Langport/Somerton area, almost always access the rail network through Castle Cary.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Southernman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 114


View Profile
« Reply #200 on: July 14, 2017, 09:04:07 »

I'm of the believe the railway are not competing with each other.
Is it really a competing route?
To me natex and megabus are the competition.
I tend to disagree! WAT-EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) has enticed a goodly number of longer distance passengers away from GWR (Great Western Railway), mainly on price but also on frequency (to Yeovil) and general reliability. Sure, bus (limited) and car are competitors and rarely do rail services compete (this case being an exception to the rule!).
But its not only about fares. Its about keeping up standards and maintenance. If First do retain the Greater Western franchise, surely its better to have agreements in writing to refer back to? No, I only expect to see agreement on a cap on fare increases.
Perhaps some figures might illustrate how passenger growth has increased (Gillingham to Yeovil Jct when compared to Castle Cary's over the past 5 years. Figures rounded to '000s and are Entry/Exits combined from official releases). Have chosen these stations as they are the ones most likely to have enticed potential GWR passengers away from Castle Cary.

Castle Cary 241 (245, 245, 234, 275)
Gillingham 426 (423, 416, 408, 425)
Templecombe 115 (114, 107,113, 107)
Sherborne 221 (216, 203, 205, 195)
Yeovil Jct 223 (215, 212, 198, 207)

This shows a slight decrease at Castle Cary in the last 3 years and steady growth at all the others.

Hence I firmly believe there is a true alternative (rival) to the Paddington route.

Who knows what might happen in the future but with the general lack of money and uncertainty it is a pretty good bet that (apart from resilience work) not much in the way of costly infrastructure improvement is likely in the short term.
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #201 on: July 14, 2017, 09:18:50 »

I think with new trains starting to serve Castle Cary and no replacement planned for the 159s on the Waterloo-Exeter line during the new franchise, that could see numbers rising on the Paddington line from Castle Cary. It's a shame as the Waterloo-Exeter line has so much potential with further redoubling and new rolling stock.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #202 on: July 14, 2017, 09:39:57 »

It strikes me that the competition element isn't so much between London and Exeter but rather in the intermediate areas, where people are rail-heading to one line or the other and will choose based on such things as

Price

Frequency

Length of journey

Where abouts in London their final destination is

Convenience to them of the station in Somerset - distance, availability of parking or transport there

There may be few changes coming on the line via Honiton, but the line via Castle Cary (intermediate trains) switch from the current irregular pattern to - we hear - a regular two-hourly service with 5 car IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) units in about 18 months.   No great secret that they'll be seeking passengers at the station along the way to help fill seats.   I wonder if / how Heart of Wessex services will connect into this radically updated timetable / what the offerings from Yeovil (where Pen Mill is within the urban sprawl) will be. A change at Castle Cary, Bruton, Frome or Westbury every 2 hours may compare well for some with the need to get out of town to the junction station.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #203 on: July 26, 2017, 12:32:41 »

Were we aware of this CMA consultation on the Coffee Shop?   Lotta pages on this thread, so a reminder here and about 2 weeks left to answer.    Web site says "updated 24th July"

Quote
... the CMA is currently running a public consultation in relation to the undertakings First Group and MTR have proposed in order to remedy the competition concerns identified on the London to Exeter route.
 
Details of the consultation are available on our website at: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/firstgroup-and-mtr-south-western-rail-franchise-merger-inquiry. The consultation is open until 8 August.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #204 on: July 26, 2017, 13:20:33 »

I think First/MTR have already come up with the solution, accepting that the SWT (South West Trains) route will have to be regulated at current levels.  It came up in the Telegraph a week ago.

Quote
Now the pair have offered to cap unregulated fares between London and Exeter on both South Western trains, which run from Waterloo, and its Great Western services from Paddington.

The caps will be imposed by linking them to prices on a number of other comparable routes, the CMA said, adding that the rail companies had also proposed maintaining the availability of cheaper advance fares on both lines, again based on prices of similar routes.

The CMA said it thought there were “reasonable grounds” to think the proposals, or a version of them, would remedy its concerns.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/19/exeter-london-rail-fare-caps-mooted-first-group-appease-competition/

Paul
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #205 on: July 26, 2017, 14:21:25 »

It did get mentioned somewhere when the CMA announced that they were minded to refer for a full investigation.

As long as *both* routes to EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) are linked & controlled, I'm happy.
Logged
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1450



View Profile
« Reply #206 on: July 31, 2017, 20:53:32 »


This is from the First/MTR staff site, explaining how they will speed up the W of E service

How are we increasing the services and cutting down journey times of the west of England line?
Services are currently planned to wait outside Waterloo in the direction towards Waterloo and from Waterloo outside Salisbury for other services, by changing the timetable we will be able to remove this time. We are also reviewing the station dwell times at Basingstoke and Woking. This proposal is subject to consultation once the new franchise has started.


However, does the increase in seating mean that first class will go?
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #207 on: July 31, 2017, 22:10:19 »


However, does the increase in seating mean that first class will go?
Unlikely, First is well used on this route.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #208 on: August 01, 2017, 11:28:11 »

I have a feeling that at least some of the planned increase in seating on the Salisbury and Exeter trains must come from finally removing the few remaining DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) diagrams that operate on other routes - the most obvious being the Lymington shuttle, but there are still a few other peak DMU services away from the main west of England line.

If they can divert 5 or 6 vehicles to strengthen a couple of peak trains to and from Salisbury then that is a single figure percentage increase straightaway...

Paul
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #209 on: August 01, 2017, 12:40:57 »

I have a feeling that at least some of the planned increase in seating on the Salisbury and Exeter trains must come from finally removing the few remaining DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) diagrams that operate on other routes - the most obvious being the Lymington shuttle, but there are still a few other peak DMU services away from the main west of England line.

If they can divert 5 or 6 vehicles to strengthen a couple of peak trains to and from Salisbury then that is a single figure percentage increase straightaway...

Paul
They are due to be getting the daily hired out unit to GWR (Great Western Railway) back soon?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page