Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
 today - GWRA Auction, Pershore
21/11/2018 - First Bath Bus panel
21/11/2018 - Consultation end - Angel Road
26/11/2018 - TransWilts Board and Members
26/11/2018 - Bath Clean Air consult ends
28/11/2018 - Melksham RUG
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
November 17, 2018, 12:24:24 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[249] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[50] Closure of Old Oak Common (81A) December 2018
[49] Use of senior railcards at peak times
[46] Cornwall signalling upgrade - ongoing discussion, merged topic...
[44] Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
[38] Vale of Berkeley Railway
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Increased police deployment on trains and at railway stations  (Read 4998 times)
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17461


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« on: May 24, 2017, 08:19:01 pm »

From the Ardrossan and Saltcoats Herald:

Quote
Increased police deployment on trains and at railway stations



Rail passengers will see more armed police on trains and at stations following the Manchester attack.

British Transport Police (BTP) is deploying additional officers amid the UK terror threat level rising to critical. The force insisted the measure does not mean there is “any specific intelligence” relating to the rail network or that there is an increased risk of travelling by train.

BTP Deputy Chief Constable Adrian Hanstock said: “Over the coming days we’ll be keeping a close eye to keep you safe, as well as making sure the nation’s railways keep functioning as usual. I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone to stay calm, be vigilant, and if you spot anything at all which gives you cause for concern, let us know.”

Hanstock added: “In light of the dreadful events over these last few days, and last night’s increase to the national threat level, nothing should be considered too trivial to report and any information, regardless of whether you feel it is significant or not, may be important to all of us.”

The blast happened at Manchester Arena, which is attached to Manchester Victoria station.

The station was closed to allow a forensic search of the area and is not expected to reopen for several days.




Logged

William Huskisson MP was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4051


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 08:47:30 pm »

Didn't notice much difference to be honest......maybe that's the idea.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3497


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 11:46:49 pm »

According to the BBC local TV news, there was some show of force at Reading. Didn't see anything at Wokingham, but then ...

Now here's an example of how to really pile on the security measures. Maybe.

When I was in Lille last week, I thought there must be some special operation at the Gare de Flandres (not just the state of emergency, still in force, and the older enhanced anti-terrorist measures called Vigipirate). But no, it turns out there were just a lot of police - or perhaps polices - there.

There were several groups, hanging around in bunches of half a dozen or so, and ignoring each other. All were dressed in fatigues uniforms and liberally bedecked with holsters. All groups are armed, though not all individuals had firearms.

There's no national railway police like the BTP, but SNCF have their own very police-like security service with "SNCF Sûreté Ferroviaire" on their backs. They were on one of the TGV platforms.

At the entrance to that platform was a bunch of douaniers. There are no true international trains (they happen at the other Lille station), but some local TER trains go to Belgium (Antwerp). Belgium is, of course, local if you are in Lille. I can only guess they were looking for people bringing in "too many" cigarettes - they are a lot cheaper in Belgium.

There were the Police Nationale, i.e. proper police. I'm sure I saw two different kinds, on different visits, judging by the badges on their sleeves.

There were four soldiers, doing their anti-terrorist bit. That means patrolling very slowly to a few fixed points to stand spread out in a line ... and looking very bored. But scary, with those assault rifles.

What I did not see was any Police Muncipale de Lille. They are not armed, and while changing that is Front National policy Lille is not a place they poll well in.

I did want to take a picture of this plethoric policing, but reckoned that at least one of those groups would object to having their picture took by a dodgy-looking foreigner, so I hope you'll understand that omission.
Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17461


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 12:45:10 am »

Meanwhile, in England - from the BBC:

Quote
York Minster police given back power of arrest


A ceremony was held at York Minster to offically confer power back to the force

A cathedral police force has been given back the power of arrest for the first time in nearly 80 years.

York Minster Police has been given the same powers as regular police officers within the minster's precinct.

Eight constables and the cathedral's head of security were sworn in at a special ceremony on Tuesday.

The force, established in the 13th Century, lost its powers in the 1930s when officers ceased to be attested.

York Minster is one of only a handful of cathedrals to maintain its own police force. Those that do have a police force include Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral, Canterbury Cathedral, St Peter's Basilica in Rome, and Washington's National Cathedral in Washington DC.

Mark Sutcliffe, Inspector of Cathedral Police at York Minster, said: "I feel very proud of the whole team for attaining their attestation. It has been an important day for everyone involved but also a significant milestone in the history of the force, which has played an important role in life at the cathedral for hundreds of years. The attestation and training the officers have completed ensures our cathedral constables have the professional skills and powers necessary to execute their duties."

Powers were returned to the force following the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Chapter of York and the chief constable of North Yorkshire. The memorandum recognises that although security provision inside the minster and its precinct remain the responsibility of cathedral constables, North Yorkshire Police will be responsible for investigating all crime. Any arrested people will be handed over to North Yorkshire Police for transport and processing and the force will be responsible for the submission of prosecution files.

The Minster Police constabulary is thought to be the oldest continuing police service in the country.


Logged

William Huskisson MP was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Worcester_Passenger
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1139


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 10:38:11 am »

According to the BBC local TV news, there was some show of force at Reading. Didn't see anything at Wokingham, but then ...

Now here's an example of how to really pile on the security measures. Maybe.


As Stuving says, "maybe".

We changed trains at Toulouse last October. An hour's wait, so we repair to one of the cafes, where there's a pile of unattended luggage. So we look for an SNCF person to report this to. Who is not very interested, but looks at the labels on the luggage and finds a mobile number. And - wait for it - rings this number. Ladies and gentlemen, DO NOT DO THIS. I was hiding behind a (suitably-solid) pillar by this stage.

There was also a four-man team of patrolling soldiers, armed with scary-looking assault rifles (are they really going to open fire in a busy station?). They weren't very interested either, but that may be because they're programmed to ignore approaches from the travelling public which might turn out to be diversionary tactics.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2226



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 11:04:36 am »

As regards the question "would troops with assault weapons really open fire in a crowded station" ?

Surely the answer is "yes but only as a last resort" Firearms are of little use against a suicide bomber, but other modes of attack exist including mass shooting such as occurred in a French nightclub. Shooting the terrorist dead as quickly as possible is the sensible response in such an attack, despite the risks to bystanders.

Alternatively terrorists might kill by use of an HGV as was done in Nice, France. Shooting the driver dead as quickly as possible is the most effective way of limiting the death toll, again despite the risks to bystanders.

It would be very sad indeed if an innocent passenger was shot dead under such circumstances, but it might be unavoidable to preserve other lives.
Logged

"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
bignosemac
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 16215


Question everything.


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 12:36:23 pm »

Meanwhile, in England - from the BBC:

A cathedral police force has been given back the power of arrest for the first time in nearly 80 years.

Logged

Former FGW/GWR regular passenger. No more. Despicable company.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1613


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 12:58:50 pm »

I did want to take a picture of this plethoric policing, but reckoned that at least one of those groups would object to having their picture took by a dodgy-looking foreigner, so I hope you'll understand that omission.
I was so impressed by the big groups of police in a railway station in Paris way back in 1989 that I took a photo of them – and got 'interrogated', ie a smaller group broke off and asked me why I'd done that, told me it was forbidden to take photos of police. Once they realised I was just an etudiant anglais, they lost interest.
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1613


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 12:59:21 pm »

Do BTP use PCSOs or are they limited to the geographical forces? Broadmead and College Green yesterday were full of PCSOs.
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9729


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 01:35:46 pm »

BTP have PCSOs, yes.

Tells you whether they're BTP on the back of their flouro
Logged
trainer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1035


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 08:29:42 pm »

Police in evidence this evening on the (delayed because of weather) 18:08 to Cardiff from Taunton.  Two officers (not marked as PCSOs) came in on the unit and left with us. I know Bridgwater can be boistrous but probably combined with the two GWR staff (oh, and the driver) no-one was even going to fare dodge let alone anything else!
Logged
Brucey
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2259


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 09:21:05 pm »

Photographs on Twitter today of armed officers on-board trains: https://twitter.com/elliotwagland/status/867749792084099072

I can't help but think the size of the weapon is totally inappropriate for the limited space in which they are working.

Personally, I find the thought of police with machine guns on-board trains to be more worrying than the minute risk of a terrorist attack.  Without putting officers on every train, what's the chance of a police officer being on the same train as a terrorist?
Logged
Thatcham Crossing
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 532


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 10:33:03 pm »

Quote
Personally, I find the thought of police with machine guns on-board trains to be more worrying than the minute risk of a terrorist attack.  Without putting officers on every train, what's the chance of a police officer being on the same train as a terrorist?

They are there to reassure, and maybe also to deter, although the people we should fear most at the moment don't seem to be too concerned about dying to further their aims.

I have some limited firearms experience, and I will say that if you need to kill for certain (in order to prevent something much more terrible happening, with maybe only a few seconds to think and act) a rifle, especially a high-velocity, automatic or semi-automatic one, makes the outcome more certain. These guys are very well-trained and know what they're doing.

Of course, we all hope that this kind of scenario never has to unfold.
Logged
Electric train
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3002


The future is 25,000 Volts a.c.


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 10:50:54 pm »

As regards the question "would troops with assault weapons really open fire in a crowded station" ?

Surely the answer is "yes but only as a last resort" Firearms are of little use against a suicide bomber, but other modes of attack exist including mass shooting such as occurred in a French nightclub. Shooting the terrorist dead as quickly as possible is the sensible response in such an attack, despite the risks to bystanders.

Alternatively terrorists might kill by use of an HGV as was done in Nice, France. Shooting the driver dead as quickly as possible is the most effective way of limiting the death toll, again despite the risks to bystanders.

It would be very sad indeed if an innocent passenger was shot dead under such circumstances, but it might be unavoidable to preserve other lives.

The troops selected have been trained for this deployment, MoD have been maintaining solders ready for such deployment for quite a number of years.

I would expect the role of the solders is to provide the defensive support to the armed Police Officers who would deal with a suspected bad guy / girl, the solders rules of engagement would be the same an armed Police Officer, to only open fire if they or a member of the public is in immanent danger
Logged

Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
bignosemac
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 16215


Question everything.


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 10:55:06 pm »

BTP's firearms officers carry the LMT (Lewis Machine & Tools) Defender CQB Carbine, using 5.56mm NATO rounds. They also carry a Glock 17 9mm pistol side arm.

Logged

Former FGW/GWR regular passenger. No more. Despicable company.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants