Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:15 28 Mar 2024
* Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
- What contributed to the Baltimore Bridge collapse?
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Woman found murdered on Orpington to London train (*)

Train RunningCancelled
06:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
06:57 Swansea to London Paddington
07:28 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
07:38 Exeter St Davids to Okehampton
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington
07:54 Looe to Liskeard
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:25 Okehampton to Exeter Central
08:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
08:30 Liskeard to Looe
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
09:05 Looe to Liskeard
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:18 Yeovil Pen Mill to Filton Abbey Wood
06:48 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
06:54 Taunton to London Paddington
07:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
07:25 Okehampton to Exeter Central
08:34 Exeter Central to Okehampton
09:35 Exeter Central to Okehampton
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
05:23 London Paddington to Swansea
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
06:38 Weymouth to Gloucester
06:50 Westbury to Weymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 08:23:48 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[155] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[124] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[85] Return of the BRUTE?
[67] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[29] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: "Shortage of train crew"  (Read 19895 times)
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7743



View Profile
« on: June 25, 2017, 09:45:16 »

Without wishing to kick off another debate about the whys and wherefores of rail staff being allowed to refuse to work on a Sunday, the number of cancellations attributed to shortage of drivers/crew is now becoming endemic - not only on Sundays, but increasingly on Saturdays and also on (especially but not exclusively) early morning services during the week.

Is there any reason for this worsening problem and what (if anything) are GWR (Great Western Railway) doing to address it?

The holiday period is rapidly approaching and presumably the situation will only get worse bearing this in mind unless there is something in place to address it.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 09:54:51 »

Unless you're willing to pay the excess in costs that will incur through (another) hike in fares, very little/nothing
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7743



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 10:22:16 »

Unless you're willing to pay the excess in costs that will incur through (another) hike in fares, very little/nothing

An interesting (if predictable!) response.............surely it's incumbent upon GWR (Great Western Railway) to ensure that they have sufficient staff available to run their advertised service as specified?
Logged
AMLAG
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 227


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 10:46:57 »

Bear in mind that many staff, drivers in particular, at most depots on the great Western are having to learn to maintain and operate new traction, something entirely foreseeable for some years now, and you begin to realise the ongoing scale of the problem.

First Group's primary reason for existence, like other PLCs, is to make money for its shareholders, you could be forgiven for not realising this, judging by some recent significantly serious failures in its services to its customers, or rather passengers as the Government correctly describes rail travellers.
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 10:55:58 »

One reason perhaps?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=387700548249573&substory_index=0&id=174679842884979

 Wink Tongue Grin
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40687



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 11:54:55 »

Without wishing to kick off another debate ...

We thrive on debate. Please do not be put off if you start one.  Grin

Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40687



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2017, 12:09:41 »

I wonder if today may be a day where the available resource is stretched to the extreme.
* Glastonbury, with extra services around
* Sunday with the whole service being run by crew volunteering for overtime
* Long diversions via Gloucester because of the emergency engineering works in Patchway Tunnel.
And that last (at least) can't have been planned weeks in advance, and was dropped on GWR (Great Western Railway) by Network Rail. There was less excuse yesterday ... it wasn't Sunday, so the crew is rostered as part of their normal work, and Patchway tunnel was open.


Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
BBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 633


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2017, 13:57:04 »

Also extra demand to Cardiff today with the England v South Africa T20 cricket match starting at 1430.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4355


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2017, 15:19:30 »

Without wishing to kick off another debate about the whys and wherefores of rail staff being allowed to refuse to work on a Sunday, the number of cancellations attributed to shortage of drivers/crew is now becoming endemic - not only on Sundays, but increasingly on Saturdays and also on (especially but not exclusively) early morning services during the week.

Is there any reason for this worsening problem and what (if anything) are GWR (Great Western Railway) doing to address it?

The holiday period is rapidly approaching and presumably the situation will only get worse bearing this in mind unless there is something in place to address it.

Its not a case of being allowed to refuse to work Sundays, they are actually not contracted to work Sundays.  If it went to a 7 day roster then GWR would need to increase the number of drivers, 35 hour week and all that.   

Also within the Railway industry we can only work a max of 12 hours and the must have a 12 rest between shifts, traveling time to and from work has to be included in the work hours and not the rest hours and on top of that after 13 days there must be a clear whole days rest (24 hours)  these hours are mandated by law

Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2017, 15:24:17 »

It's about time the railway who want to provide a Sunday service come out of the 1980s and put staff onto 7 day contracts the same way any other business that operates Sunday manage. If it takes a cash compensation payment to each affected member of staff then that's what it needs.
A former workplace offered £2k per employee to make Sundays compulsory- reduced operations meant we only worked 1 in 5 Sundays under compulsory working. Admittedly no interfering unions but only 2 individuals declined the offer. Both of them were people I knew as strong religious types. A large majority of my colleagues spent the money on a week in the sun. I went to Tenerife myself.
Offer a useful sum of money and the majority will accept a variation (until the union put a negative spin on it)
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2017, 16:20:28 »

Channeling ChrisB...

"Oooos gunna pay for it?"

 Wink Tongue Grin
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2017, 16:33:30 »

There was an opportunity to bring it into the working week when the recent traction package was accepted by HSS (High Speed Services) to drive the new IET (Intercity Express Train) trains, and be reclassified as IET drivers.  It wasn't taken up for whatever reason though there is a commitment from both sides for 'more discussions' regarding Sunday working - whatever that means.

Couldn't agree more that it needs sorting as we have the same discussions every year.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2017, 17:35:57 »

Channeling ChrisB...

"Oooos gunna pay for it?"

 Wink Tongue Grin


Quite happily a small adjustment to fares, to ensure a reliable Sunday service.
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40687



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2017, 18:14:03 »

Channeling ChrisB...

"Oooos gunna pay for it?"

 Wink Tongue Grin


Quite happily a small adjustment to fares, to ensure a reliable Sunday service.

I wonder how the sums would work.

From "How to become a train driver" at http://www.traindriver.org/what-the-job-involves.html#

Quote
Sunday Working: The guaranteed working week on the railway has always run from Monday to Saturday with Sundays counted as voluntary overtime. This means you can opt not to work a Sunday or even opt not to work Sundays at all. However, you are required to indicate that you do not wish to work a Sunday by early the preceding week in order that your turn can be covered by a spare or volunteer driver.

This applies to most railway grades and it comes as a big surprise to outsiders to learn that the Sunday train service is run almost entirely on a voluntary basis. The low rates of pay in the past meant that most drivers worked all the Sundays (and often Rest Days) they could in order to earn a living wage, with the result that the Sunday service was reliably covered. The fact that train driving is very much better paid today means that many drivers (or their wives!) have made the lifestyle choice to forgo the extra money and have every Sunday off. This has meant that at some depots the management are having a real struggle to cover the Sunday service and are sometimes cancelling trains because no staff are available.

Because of this some companies are moving to including Sundays in the four (or five) day working week so that it is rostered as a normal day. This isn’t as easy as it sounds because doing this effectively involves taking driver hours out of the Monday to Saturday roster in order to transfer them to the Sunday service. This either requires a reduction in weekday train services or requires more drivers to be employed. Because of these difficulties some companies are trying to change the Conditions of Service so that drivers work an agreed maximum number of committed Sundays each year on a compulsory overtime basis. This is deeply unpopular and has only been introduced at a few firms (such as Virgin) at the price of very much higher salaries. More of these changes can be expected though.

Very interesting comment about drivers being better paid these days so no taking so much overtime; very common in other areas outside rail too.   As recently told to me by a non-rail transport company owner: "Would you like to do some work on Saturdays to earn some overtime"  ... "No thank you - that recent rise was great, and so I don't need to ... much better quality of life and chance to spend time with the family"
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2017, 21:09:31 »

Indeed, it'll either get covered by increased fares (remival if the super off-peak, anyone?) - so by the likely users of weekend services (not sure it would seem to be fair to load it onto commuter peak fares), or by taxpayers with a lower take from franchise payments.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page