Poor use of a HST.

[richwarwicker]

I gather its a compulsary element of The franchise so this isn't a rant at GWR but the dft.

I've been regularly catching the 1530 train from Truro to Par (Penzance to Par service) over the last fortnight. 2p82 I believe which connects to 1A82 at Par which is a Newquay to Paddington service.
I'm growing frustrated with the overcrowding on the unit, especially seeing the HST coming off the branch empty.
Today for example, 2P82 was operated by 150202 which has 3+2 seating. From Truro every single seat was taken, and my carriage had around 30 people standing, all in the doors ways as the aisles are so narrow! From St Austell it picked up a large number and only a few got off, which then became very cosy, with bodily contact from all directions squeezing in.
We arrived at Par around 1 minute before the HST came off the branch, so I positioned myself where the rear most carriage would be. As it passed I counted 8 passengers, a further 4 drunks were in coach A not being quiet!
I walked through the length of the train looking at reservations, a vast majority of all the reservations were Par origins, further evidencing passengers arriving from the Penzance unit.
I've used the Newquay HST several weekdays last summer and had my own private carriage between Par and Newquay. Fridays have been the only journeys I've seen decent passenger numbers.
Why do the dft insist on GWR running a daily to Newquay from Paddington, when quite frankly my observations suggest a 153 would be over capacity! That HST would be far better utilised where the passengers actually are, Truro, st Austell and west Cornwall.
A Friday only HST would make a little more sense being change over day at most holiday parks.

[grahame]

What happens to the high summer through London train from Newquay when IEPs take over all the current 2 + 8 services?

[ChrisB]

My thought on that is a 5car IEP, likely joining with another 5car at PLY, poss Fridays only

[Adelante_CCT]

Having a 5 + 5 splitting at Plymouth would probably be ideal in many scenarios including the example given in the original post.

If one portion is likely to be quieter then run this calling at all (major) stops between Plymouth and Par whilst run the other non-stop.

[IndustryInsider]

A good example of where portion operation may well be beneficial in providing more stations with a direct train without risking any crowding problems.

[ChrisB]

Indeed, the other 5 could go all stations from/to PNZ

[bignosemac]

Portion working IEPs for these services (1452 Penzance-Par and 1506 Newquay-Paddington) sounds ideal, but what about the 1610 Par-Newqay? That would still need diagramming. Currently formed using the unit that came up from Penzance.

 

[stuving]

A good example of where portion operation may well be beneficial in providing more stations with a direct train without risking any crowding problems.

Doesn't Newquay need gauge clearance work for IEP? That's not on the CP5 work plan at the moment. Penzance wasn't on the core IEP routes at the start of CP5; by the time of the Hendy review Penzance, but none of the branches, had been added. So while the current SLC calls for at least one through train to London per day, will that continue?

Well, there is now a modified SLC (3a) to account for "From Dec 18: WoE and certain other services formed rolling stock new to the Greater Western Franchise.)" It still includes the through trains to Newquay, about which it says: "1.3 Services may be joined with services specified in Route B or Route H2, with one train fulfilling the requirements of both Routes." B and H2 are the fast and stopping trains to Penzance, and for B it says:

3.10 Newquay
On Summer Saturdays one service from London Paddington and one service to London Paddington shall call. On Mondays to Fridays during the period from the first weekend in July to the last weekend in August, one service shall call in each direction.

So, I hope they do fit. Unless there will still be some other stock running between December 2018 and the end of the Franchise?

[grahame]

Doesn't Newquay need gauge clearance work for IEP? That's not on the CP5 work plan at the moment. Penzance wasn't on the core IEP routes at the start of CP5; by the time of the Hendy review Penzance, but none of the branches, had been added. So while the current SLC calls for at least one through train to London per day, will that continue?

My thought too

Portion working IEPs for these services (1452 Penzance-Par and 1506 Newquay-Paddington) sounds ideal, but what about the 1610 Par-Newqay? That would still need diagramming. Currently formed using the unit that came up from Penzance.

Such a major recast is planned on the Cornish Main Line that this question probably changes - though the question of where the stock goes / comes from before / after a break from a regular pattern remains an excellent one.


<advocate mode=devil>Whilst logic suggests that the longer (and long distance) train be used on the busier route, if the traffic on the quieter route at this time of day is mostly long distance, and on the busier route is mostly shorter distance, isn't it correct to run the long, long distance train on the quieter route just this once a day in order to provide something for through passengers. Remember you loose nearly half of them to rail if you make them changes, whereas the busier route already has a good variety of through long distance trains so there isn't that loss to rail - rather a transfer of passengers to trains that run an hour or two earlier or later</advocate>

150202 is gauge cleared all the way from Newquay into Paddington, I'm sure ... 

[ChrisB]

Is the 2tph service to PNZ scheduled for Dec18?....so a 15x to Par to pick up the Newquay train would still meet that....

[richwarwicker]

<advocate mode=devil>Whilst logic suggests that the longer (and long distance) train be used on the busier route, if the traffic on the quieter route at this time of day is mostly long distance, and on the busier route is mostly shorter distance, isn't it correct to run the long, long distance train on the quieter route just this once a day in order to provide something for through passengers. Remember you loose nearly half of them to rail if you make them changes, whereas the busier route already has a good variety of through long distance trains so there isn't that loss to rail - rather a transfer of passengers to trains that run an hour or two earlier or later</advocate>

150202 is gauge cleared all the way from Newquay into Paddington, I'm sure ... 

By this theory making newquay passengers change at Par we would have lost 6 passengers yesterday, whereas had those from Penzance to Par had a through train we would have gained a 150 3+2 worth of seating plus the value of the standees!

[a-driver]

Probably the only reason that runs as an HST to Newquay is it fits in with the rest of the service and meets a franchise requirement. Outside of the Summer timetable that HST service would normally start from Plymouth at 1657. At a guess I would imagine there's not a HST available to run all the way down to Penzance in order to work back up hence why it's a unit.