Electric and autonomous vehicles

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

It does highlight another issue though. There is, apparently, very little margin in selling petrol and diesel retail. Which is why petrol stations need to sell all sorts of other stuff, including turning themselves into Costas, to make a decent income. Will there be profit in selling electrons at high enough voltage and current to rapid charge cars? Until recently, many rapid charging stations were literally giving it away, in order to build up a customer base. Obviously there's no money in slow charging, cos most people will do that at home.

But fast charging that takes a few minutes - thats a retail opportunity!

[Bmblbzzz]

Could also work the other way; corner stores and post offices might start installing rapid chargers for their customers to use, selling the electricity at a slight profit to supplement shop income and draw in customers. Unlike with petrol, there aren't the fire hazards (might be some but I haven't heard of any, and the chargers are commonly installed in unsupervised areas) and they don't create a stink. It's never quite made sense to me to be sold "fresh" food in an atmosphere of petrol and diesel fumes.

[Electric train]

It has to be remembered that most car journeys in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) are commute with an average of around 40 mile round trip.

One of the problems with renewable energy like solar and wind is storing it, one solution is electric cars, with smart tariffs and charging points you could drive your electric car to the station, office, supermarket, home etc car park at a charging point and your car recharges when the tariff says its economical to charge.  The technology needs to be refined to allow contactless charging points.  Its all do able now just not market refined.

As for longer journeys current battery technology allows 200 plus miles on a charge, after 200 miles personally I need a break from driving, fast charge points could charge the battery in 20 mins.  You would pay a higher tariff as this is a recharge on demand.

There is also regen breaking to consider on electric cars and lorries.

 

[ellendune]

As for longer journeys current battery technology allows 200 plus miles on a charge, after 200 miles personally I need a break from driving, fast charge points could charge the battery in 20 mins.  You would pay a higher tariff as this is a recharge on demand.

20 minutes - that's just time for a quiet cup of tea for the driver in a service area!

[Red Squirrel]

You would pay a higher tariff as this is a recharge on demand.

Ecotricity charge 17p/kWh, plus a £3 connection fee (waived for their customers). Pretty cheap compared with petrol or diesel, partly because electric motors are so efficient but also in part because you're paying a lot less duty.

Interesting times ahead: at some point the Treasury will presumably want to find a way to replace the revenue they are losing; at the same time the price of oil is likely to fall making internal combustion cheaper.

[ChrisB]

Why is the price of oil likely to fall around 2040? Scarcity makes prices rise.

[broadgage]

Why is the price of oil likely to fall around 2040? Scarcity makes prices rise.

Indeed, the oil price fluctuates all the time for various reasons, but I expect that the long term trend would be upwards. Not only are total oil reserves limited, but most remaining oil is hard to extract and therefore expensive to get at.
A lot comes from the Middle east, a region noted for wars, instability, and religious hatred.

[ellendune]

Why is the price of oil likely to fall around 2040? Scarcity makes prices rise.

Sorry have I missed something - was anyone here suggesting that the price of oil would fall around 2040?

Someone once said to me that the value of oil in making plastics was so great it was too valuable resource to burn.

As an aside - hasn't this thread strayed along way from the subject.  Is it time for some splitting?

[ChrisB]

..... at some point the Treasury will presumably want to find a way to replace the revenue they are losing; at the same time the price of oil is likely to fall making internal combustion cheaper.

[ellendune]

Why is the price of oil likely to fall around 2040? Scarcity makes prices rise.

Sorry have I missed something - was anyone here suggesting that the price of oil would fall around 2040?

Someone once said to me that the value of oil in making plastics was so great it was too valuable resource to burn.

As an aside - hasn't this thread strayed along way from the subject.  Is it time for some splitting?

..... at some point the Treasury will presumably want to find a way to replace the revenue they are losing; at the same time the price of oil is likely to fall making internal combustion cheaper.

Thanks ChrisB

[Western Pathfinder]

Why is the price of oil likely to fall around 2040? Scarcity makes prices rise.

Sorry have I missed something - was anyone here suggesting that the price of oil would fall around 2040?

Someone once said to me that the value of oil in making plastics was so great it was too valuable resource to burn.

As an aside - hasn't this thread strayed along way from the subject.  Is it time for some splitting?

..... at some point the Treasury will presumably want to find a way to replace the revenue they are losing; at the same time the price of oil is likely to fall making internal combustion cheaper.

Thanks ChrisB


And at that point in time the treasury department will realise that the most significant way to achieve a replacement source of revenue will be to Tax Hydrogen as a road vehicle fuel ,so yet again hitting the motorists in the pockets

[ChrisB]

well, continuing to, rather than yet again, surely.

[Red Squirrel]

Sorry have I missed something - was anyone here suggesting that the price of oil would fall around 2040?

I was. I subscribe to the view that relatively small reductions in demand cause the price of oil to drop sharply; it's something to do with the way that the price is more dependent on sentiment and futures than pure supply and demand.

[Red Squirrel]

There; I've done the difficult bit. Now we just need a mod to shift the relevant stuff to this topic 

[ChrisB]

That might be so if the level of oil availability in 2040 would be the same as it is now - it will be a lot less by then, while demand from the developing nations will be higher.