Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Thatcham Crossing]

Word elsewhere that the juice is due to be turned on to Southcote Junction on 14th Oct and on the 21st to Newbury.

[chuffed]

Came through Filton on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) diversion from Patchway yesterday and began to have hallucinations about the possibility of Four Track Sooner than Expected. A new name for the FTSE ! It seemed to be not far short of finishing touches in places and there was a sense of urgency about the works even at 4.30pm on a gorgeous late September afternoon.There are three months before the end of the year. Is an early finish feasible or am I away with the fairies again ?
I am sure I will quickly be brought back to reality by someone more knowledgeable on this forum.
Mods...you may wish to move this to the Four Track Forum as there is no electrification planned for this bit!

[TonyK]

Mods...you may wish to move this to the Four Track Forum as there is no electrification planned for this bit!

Ah, but surely there is? The work was "paused", not cancelled, and a great deal of the preparatory work has been done. It would have made perfect sense to have incorporated electrification into the four-tracking work, as a lot of the issues that have slowed the work down elsewhere probably had to be fixed anyway. Even if the route through Bath stays diesel only, much would be gained from wiring up Filton Bank.

[rogerw]

I travelled from reading to Westbury today.  Overhead wiring is complete except for a section east of Newbury racecourse.  Electrification ends just west of Newbury station at MP53½.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Overhead wiring is complete except for a section east of Newbury racecourse

You refer to the gap at Kennet Viaduct, where there are power lines that cross the track (not far above where the OHLE wires will be once installed).

A lot of contractors and plant on the site when I had a look around yesterday. Not sure how they're going to resolve, but assume that whatever the plan is it will be carried out during the final blockade (8th Oct for 4 days).

[Bmblbzzz]

Mods...you may wish to move this to the Four Track Forum as there is no electrification planned for this bit!

Ah, but surely there is? The work was "paused", not cancelled, and a great deal of the preparatory work has been done. It would have made perfect sense to have incorporated electrification into the four-tracking work, as a lot of the issues that have slowed the work down elsewhere probably had to be fixed anyway. Even if the route through Bath stays diesel only, much would be gained from wiring up Filton Bank.

It's always been my understanding that Filton Bank is to be electrified after the four-tracking is complete. Not sure whether this includes the whole of the "Filton diamond" (don't know its proper name, sorry) and Dr Day's Junction.

[Noggin]

Mods...you may wish to move this to the Four Track Forum as there is no electrification planned for this bit!

Ah, but surely there is? The work was "paused", not cancelled, and a great deal of the preparatory work has been done. It would have made perfect sense to have incorporated electrification into the four-tracking work, as a lot of the issues that have slowed the work down elsewhere probably had to be fixed anyway. Even if the route through Bath stays diesel only, much would be gained from wiring up Filton Bank.

It's always been my understanding that Filton Bank is to be electrified after the four-tracking is complete. Not sure whether this includes the whole of the "Filton diamond" (don't know its proper name, sorry) and Dr Day's Junction.

I was under the impression that Filton Bank was on-hold, along with Chippenham to Bristol and Temple Meads itself, as there would be little use for it until there were regular Bristol to London services via Parkway.

[Bmblbzzz]

Mods...you may wish to move this to the Four Track Forum as there is no electrification planned for this bit!

Ah, but surely there is? The work was "paused", not cancelled, and a great deal of the preparatory work has been done. It would have made perfect sense to have incorporated electrification into the four-tracking work, as a lot of the issues that have slowed the work down elsewhere probably had to be fixed anyway. Even if the route through Bath stays diesel only, much would be gained from wiring up Filton Bank.

It's always been my understanding that Filton Bank is to be electrified after the four-tracking is complete. Not sure whether this includes the whole of the "Filton diamond" (don't know its proper name, sorry) and Dr Day's Junction.

I was under the impression that Filton Bank was on-hold, along with Chippenham to Bristol and Temple Meads itself, as there would be little use for it until there were regular Bristol to London services via Parkway.

Yes, that's what I'm saying too! The wires will go from Temple Meads to Parkway and from there to London and Cardiff.

[ChrisB]

Aren't regular services from London to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) via BPM contained within the Jan19 (now May19ish) timetable?

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, there appears to be some confusion here.

As Chris says, services will operate from Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Parkway to Paddington from the 'big bang' timetable change - now moved from Jan '19 to May '19.  They will operate on diesel from Temple Meads to Parkway and electric from there.  Parkway to Temple Meads electrifcation was deferred (along with Thingly Junction to Temple Meads) so whilst it might well still happen it won't be finished for several years. 

Personally I can see electrification of both routes into Bristol Temple Meads going from 'deferred' to 'shelved'.  There's little performance benefit wiring the short section from Temple Meads to Parkway, and its hard to justify going to the bother of wiring up the complex layout at Temple Meads unless you are also wiring the route through to Thingly Junction.  I think that is doubtful due to the limited performance benefit on that stretch of track as well and the complexity of wiring Box Tunnel and the Bath area.

So, unless there is a big swing back in favour of electrification, and the route through from Birmingham to Exeter is electrified (also unlikely IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) then Bristol Temple Meads won't be seeing wires any time soon!

[ellendune]

Yes, there appears to be some confusion here.

As Chris says, services will operate from Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Parkway to Paddington from the 'big bang' timetable change - now moved from Jan '19 to May '19.  They will operate on diesel from Temple Meads to Parkway and electric from there.  Parkway to Temple Meads electrifcation was deferred (along with Thingly Junction to Temple Meads) so whilst it might well still happen it won't be finished for several years. 

Personally I can see electrification of both routes into Bristol Temple Meads going from 'deferred' to 'shelved'.  There's little performance benefit wiring the short section from Temple Meads to Parkway, and its hard to justify going to the bother of wiring up the complex layout at Temple Meads unless you are also wiring the route through to Thingly Junction.  I think that is doubtful due to the limited performance benefit on that stretch of track as well and the complexity of wiring Box Tunnel and the Bath area.

So, unless there is a big swing back in favour of electrification, and the route through from Birmingham to Exeter is electrified (also unlikely IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) then Bristol Temple Meads won't be seeing wires any time soon!

All depends on how many marginal seats there are in Bristol at the next election!

[Noggin]

Yes, there appears to be some confusion here.

As Chris says, services will operate from Bristol TM^‡(resolve) via Parkway to Paddington from the 'big bang' timetable change - now moved from Jan '19 to May '19.  They will operate on diesel from Temple Meads to Parkway and electric from there.  Parkway to Temple Meads electrifcation was deferred (along with Thingly Junction to Temple Meads) so whilst it might well still happen it won't be finished for several years. 

Personally I can see electrification of both routes into Bristol Temple Meads going from 'deferred' to 'shelved'.  There's little performance benefit wiring the short section from Temple Meads to Parkway, and its hard to justify going to the bother of wiring up the complex layout at Temple Meads unless you are also wiring the route through to Thingly Junction.  I think that is doubtful due to the limited performance benefit on that stretch of track as well and the complexity of wiring Box Tunnel and the Bath area.

So, unless there is a big swing back in favour of electrification, and the route through from Birmingham to Exeter is electrified (also unlikely IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) then Bristol Temple Meads won't be seeing wires any time soon!

All depends on how many marginal seats there are in Bristol at the next election!

There's a relatively recent consultant's report kicking around somewhere, which, from memory, says that if you want Bristol suburban electrification, there are a number of big ticket items that will have to be paid for, including a new grid feeder, a new depot for the electric stock, resignalling south of Temple Meads and sorting a number of bridges including Wells Road in Bristol. The conclusion was that the numbers only added up if it were funded at a national level as part of a cross-country electrification programme.   

[martyjon]

Its the Bath Road bridge, the Wells Road begins a few hundred metres to the south of the bridge crossing the west end Temple Meads station throat. I was once told that the estimated cost of replacing that bridge alone with the associated roadworks was £400 million as the council stipulated that it had to be 6 lanes plus pedestrian walkways and it would also mean CPO's for acquisition of land from Fowlers (M/C showroom) and Kwik-Fit(?) (tyres and exhausts).

[ellendune]

Its the Bath Road bridge, the Wells Road begins a few hundred metres to the south of the bridge crossing the west end Temple Meads station throat. I was once told that the estimated cost of replacing that bridge alone with the associated roadworks was £400 million as the council stipulated that it had to be 6 lanes plus pedestrian walkways and it would also mean CPO's for acquisition of land from Fowlers (M/C showroom) and Kwik-Fit(?) (tyres and exhausts).

Surely the railway should not have to pay for betterment for the road?

[martyjon]

Its the Bath Road bridge, the Wells Road begins a few hundred metres to the south of the bridge crossing the west end Temple Meads station throat. I was once told that the estimated cost of replacing that bridge alone with the associated roadworks was £400 million as the council stipulated that it had to be 6 lanes plus pedestrian walkways and it would also mean CPO's for acquisition of land from Fowlers (M/C showroom) and Kwik-Fit(?) (tyres and exhausts).

Surely the railway should not have to pay for betterment for the road?

Ahh, but the BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) would be making a contribution supported by a Central Government grant from the roads improvement fund.