Chippenham Rail User Group

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Chippenham station is one of two (the other is Melksham) that's included with the TransWilts service designation.  And on 21st September, we're holding an open meeting to see if there's interest in forming a Chippenham Rail Users Group, Station Adoption group, or equivalent.    This is a placeholder for your diaries at the moment - I'll be moving this thread to public view midweek, once I have literature and after a letting the station team know more details too (excellent staff at Chippenham!).

Please feel free to add to this thread with issues you consider especially relevant to Chippenham - help me "seed" the meeting.   Yes, we do have some ideas of the issues that might be of interest
• Only two trains per day to Salisbury and Southampton
• Proposals for development around the station
• Installation of ticket gates
• No late evening services from Bristol, Bath or Westbury
• Peak fares to London
• Connections for journeys to Midlands and the North
• Electrification and new trains
• Pick up and bus access only available via Station Hill
• Planned 40% increase in car parking
• Low cost fares and best routes
• Leisure fares and destinations

P.S. If you wondered what happened to "our" other three stations at TransWilts, Westbury and Trowbridge stations are designated to Heart of Wessex, and Swindon's considered to big a dog for our tail to wag it.   Expect a through service to and from Salisbury and beyond to be the pre-cursor of designation for stations at Dilton Marsh, Warminster and Wilton, with 2020 vision.

[ChrisB]

Late evening? How late? I use the 2230 off BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) regularly after nights out there to get back north of OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)....if its late enough for me....

Similarly, BRI is what? 20mins away by HST^▸ (High Speed Train)? Connnections there into notthbound XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services. How would you improve that?

[grahame]

Late evening? How late? I use the 2230 off BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) regularly after nights out there to get back north of OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)....if its late enough for me....

Similarly, BRI is what? 20mins away by HST^▸ (High Speed Train)? Connnections there into notthbound XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services. How would you improve that?

In my summer 1990 timetable, there's a 22:35 WSM to SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) that leaves BRI at 23:25, BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains) at 23:47 and CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains) at 00:04, terminates 00:26 at SWI.   Friday only.   That's a similar time to the last Bristol to Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury and Frome runs now - and that train is HEAVING, unlike the one an hour earlier.  So I suspect the case needs to be reconsidered.    There's an impressive online petition looking for this.

25 minutes Chippenham to Bristol, then 20 minutes connection time at Temple Meads ... so about an hour after leaving Chippenham you're still in Bristol (Parkway) and only just starting to head up north ... probably further from Birmingham as the crow flies than Chippenham is when you work it out!

Edit to add - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18512.0 - discussion on later train from Bristol

[ChrisB]

Now do the same exercise via SWI^» (Swindon - next trains), DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) & OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) to pick up XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and what time to get to say BHM? Bet its slower than via BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).

[grahame]

Now do the same exercise via SWI^» (Swindon - next trains), DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) & OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) to pick up XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and what time to get to say BHM? Bet its slower than via BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).

As far as the passenger is concerned, it doesn't matter if he does via Bristol, Didcot or Tipperary.  Chippenham to Birmingham (for The North) is about 70 miles, and he wants a decent speed for that journey - say at least 40 m.p.h. average from his train pulling out of Chippenham to his train pulling in to Birmingham - that's 1 hour 45 minutes.   Let's take a look at that 70 miles:



Here are some train times from places near the edge of that green circle to Birmingham (New Street) - taken for a date without engineering works.  The times are "fastest clockface" - not fastest all day, but rather fastest you'll get in a typical off peak hour.

1:03   Sheffield
1:26   Bristol
1:26   Manchester
1:27   Chepstow
1:33   Reading
1:43   Chester
1:46   Peterborough
2:15   Lincoln
2:23   Chippenham

[ChrisB]

So, how do youbpropose to speed it up, getting good value, from the current rail network? Bearing in mind current service usage and using vacant paths?

[John R]

Unfortunately the railway geography is always going to mean that journeys like Chippenham northwards are going to be relatively slow.

With a half hour service to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), and a half hourly service north from BRI, the issue you raised is the relatively long connection time of around 20 mins.  In reality, are you really going to try and rejig two major timetables, to suit the needs of CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains)? And if you did, what would your optimal connection time be, that doesn't start to run the risk of a late train resulting in the connection being missed, particularly for mobility impaired customers?

Putting in the journey I get typical fastest hourly services of 2:07 southbound and 2:13 northbound after the current engineering work.  Still not great, but not quite as bleak as you paint. Also, the AA is showing a fastest route of 105 miles and 1 hr 58 mins, which is probably a better comparator than the 70 miles as the crow flies.

[grahame]

So, how do youbpropose to speed it up, getting good value, from the current rail network? Bearing in mind current service usage and using vacant paths?

The list that the thread started with is concerns from passengers and potential passengers spoken to / read in the press or online / heard on the radio from Chippenham.  The answer / comment to them may well be "look - there's no lines in the right places to take you more directly any longer".     Yet I do wonder where we would be if history had been a bit different and Virgin Cross Country had established their Swindon - Stroud - Cheltenham Spa - Birmingham New Street service, or if Bristol to Oxford via Didcot West Curve still ran.

[ChrisB]

There's good reason neither do. The Usergroup might consider whether there is a business case to somehow improve either route to enable a viable case, and then find the rolling stock to be able to do so.

I suspect the answer won't take many hours deliberation

[grahame]

There's good reason neither do.

Hmmm ... the decisions against those services were made between 10 and 15 years ago.  I could give you a couple of other negative decisions from around that time that have been reversed since, and been successful.

[ChrisB]

Stock required for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to be able to run the first , paths required to run the second. Still both valid problems, methinks

[John R]

Maybe not the second, given the many lumbering coal trains to Didcot no longer run.  And certainly would not have been if electrification to Bristol and Oxford had been completed, as 110mph emus would mean pathing  would be easy.

[grahame]

Event flyer at http://atrebatia.info/chrug_launch.pdf

Chippenham Station is used by thousands of rail passengers every week - but there is not ... yet ... an established group through which passengers can talk with the train operator. TransWilts (Swindon to Westbury) is a recently designated service and Chippenham Station comes within its remit. There are user groups at most stations in Wiltshire, with the exception of Chippenham and Pewsey The purpose of holding an "inaugural meeting" in September is to see if one should be setup, if there are people to do so, and what shape it would take.

Rail user and station friends groups cover the majority of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) stations. They differ widely from group to group, but all provide a way for local rail users (and potential rail users) to get together, to talk with the train operator, and to learn more about what's going on. Many provide opportunities to get involved in volunteer activities and take a pride in their station too. They are generally regarded as positive by the train operators, who get co-ordinated inputs and suggestions they might not have thought of (after all, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have 210 stations to look after), and by the passengers who end up being better informed locally.


At TransWilts, most of the work is voluntary (over and above the call of paid duty!) - we're a community organisation with very close links to both the train operators and council; our suggestions have helped get improvements for local conditions, and our volunteer team has helped in many ways, including marketing and surveys - helping us keep the trial service from Chippenham to Westbury - and understand the detail of why it’s working and how it should progress in the future. That's good for users and operators alike.

Some issues that you may want to give us your views on include:
• Only two trains per day to Salisbury and Southampton
• Proposals for development around the station
• Installation of ticket gates
• No late evening services from Bristol, Bath or Westbury
• Peak fares to London
• Connections for journeys to Midlands and the North
• Electrification and new trains
• Pick up and bus access only available via Station Hill
• Planned 40% increase in car parking
• Low cost fares and best routes
• Leisure fares and destinations

Come along and see how you may be able to make a difference!

[IndustryInsider]

Stock required for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to be able to run the first , paths required to run the second. Still both valid problems, methinks

Maybe not the second, given the many lumbering coal trains to Didcot no longer run.  And certainly would not have been if electrification to Bristol and Oxford had been completed, as 110mph emus would mean pathing  would be easy.

Looking at the map Graham posted it struck me how pleasing the arc created by running a long distance regional route from Bristol via Bath to Swindon, Oxford and Milton Keynes/Bedford and (eventually) Cambridge looks.  I still think there would be great merit in East-West Rail (or XC) running that service rather than running their trains just to Didcot or Reading.  So many markets would be much better served as a result, both shorter and longer distance, and even without electrification I'm sure paths for 100mph DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), or even better Bi-Mode's at 125mph, could be found west of Didcot.

[ChrisB]

Once EWR is open, yes, then I think a ross country service is very likely. 110mph needed dor the DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)-SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) section at least.

Not sure whether EWR is still getting the wires. Even better if its still in the project as electric trains ciuld be used once GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electrification is completed as currently projected and will allow a BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)/CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) - Milton Keynes and eventually Cambridge.

But I think patience is required for the works/lines to be completed