Further restriction on off peak tickets

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

It was the 'by stealth' I wasn't exactly defending, but referring to.

All sorts of companies do it, and very few get called on it. Toblerone I thonk was the last one? But washing powder/liquid has recently seen boxes/bottles shrink & I've yet to see any comment anywhere.

I agree with BNM about tickets purchased in advance of the change. They must remain valid. I'm not sure many though would have the courage to fight the non-mention on NRE^‡(resolve)'s website of a change to a validity code. Frankly, they ought to set up a new code for new sales, then there could be no arguments. But how many even know that NRE's website is the arbiter of validities? (Mind you, where does it say this, BNM?)

This presumably came in at the September fares change point? (which would have been Sunday 3rd?)

However. If tickets purchased prior to the rise date are still valid, how other than posters do they announce the rise?
Any shop would simply change the price tag. Online, this will have happened with the fares no longer available being not shown since the rise and the new price is displayed. Ditto on TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine). Presumably the same at ticket offices.

Similarly, no shop/airline gives advance notice of rises, prices simply change. So why do we expect rail to be different? Serious Q.

There's actually been quite a lot of discussion about shrinkflation in the media.

As to the last question, with shops and airlines you usually have a choice as to where you take your custom, and indeed in most cases whether you even have to make the purchase/journey.  With rail you very rarely have a choice of supplier, and the railways are a public service, albeit in part privatised. So it does command a bit of a monopoly, and thus I believe is in a different position.

But little difference to airlines (mostly privatised, but not quite all)

Indeed, their prices can change from one hour to the next.

[John R]

Make of that what you will. AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See), the only train leaving PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) for SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) after 08:10 and not after 09:00 is the 08:30 to Bristol, for which Journey Planner does indeed not off offer an SVR to Swindon.

Usually every 15 mins, but not currently because of the Bristol Parkway closure.  The 0815, 0830 and 0845 are affected by this change.

To come back to ChrisB's point, I see there is a huge difference with airlines.  Rail journeys are typically used by millions of people going about their day to day lives, and many of those are essential journeys.  Most people will make at most a couple of scheduled flights a year for personal (i.e. not business use).   

[didcotdean]

A 09:29 restriction from Didcot actually means that the first direct fast train to London available on an off-peak return isn't until 10:03, which is also the first on which a Network card is valid.

However, at least at the moment, in the system off-peak day returns remain valid on the 09:16 and 09:29, restriction code P7.

A right recipe for confusion that one. One train timetabled excluded from off peak returns by being bang on the new restriction time. The earlier one a turbo starting from Oxford which I have never experienced being remotely full. Some off-peak tickets being valid, others not on the same train, ticketed from the same station.

[stuving]

I noticed at Paddington this evening a notice advising that the earliest departure for off peak tickets has been pushed back 45 mins from 0815 to 0900.

This seems a significant variation. Are there no restrictions on TOCS as to when off peak fares are valid, so that over time they can continue to be reduced?

Do you remember the actual wording of that notice? Or has someone else seen it? I suspect it might not mean what everyone has assumed.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Those are the only items I can see for travel from Paddington applying today, among many for other cases.

Aha, well spotted.

So the new later cut-off time (seemingly 08.48 from Paddington) has been applied in the "Unpublished Restrictions" machine-readable section of the fare definition, as visible on BRFares; but not on the public-facing plain English version, as visible on nationalrail.co.uk.

That is nuts. Absolutely nuts. Publishing the restrictions on nr.co.uk was meant to make fares more transparent... it makes them less clear if the restrictions published on nr.co.uk aren't actually the ones being applied.

[John R]

I noticed at Paddington this evening a notice advising that the earliest departure for off peak tickets has been pushed back 45 mins from 0815 to 0900.

This seems a significant variation. Are there no restrictions on TOCS as to when off peak fares are valid, so that over time they can continue to be reduced?

Do you remember the actual wording of that notice? Or has someone else seen it? I suspect it might not mean what everyone has assumed.

No, I don't. But looking online at booking engines it's clear that my interpretation is correct in that you used to be able to travel off peak at 0815 and now you have to wait until 0900.

[broadgage]

Another fare increase by stealth 

As forecast by my crystal ball. In the long running thread about the new trains, someone remarked upon the great cost of these new units and enquired as to by how much fares would rise to recoup these costs.
An advocate of the new trains stated that there would be no increases beyond the usual inflation linked fare increases.

I stated that I expected a lot of "hidden" fare increases to pay for the very expensive DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). In particular I forecast tinkering with validity times of off peak tickets.
So the fare increases might be held to say 3% for regulated fares, but for some customers who need to travel at a certain time, the increase might in fact be 50% or more.

[John R]

Another fare increase by stealth 

... the increase might in fact be 50% or more.

Or even +117%.

[broadgage]

Indeed, 117% in some cases.
I expect more of this sort of thing. Not just altering the off peak times, but also timetable tweaks so as bring more popular trains into the peak.
If for example arrival into London before 10-00 is ruled peak, then any trains arriving just after 10-00 could be re timed to arrive just before 10-00. This of course is not a fare increase, but a demonstration of the splendid performance of the new trains. "An earlier arrival into London, in line with customer expectations"

[ChrisB]

Hmmmm - there are only so many paths/platforms available (longer trains, remember, so stacking is less likely) in a given 15min period.