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Author Topic: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel  (Read 35989 times)
ChrisB
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« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2017, 14:22:21 »

Because using managers when the union would want more drivers / members recruited, that's why. Having drivers on 'wrong' contracts isn't their members problem. Or paying sufficient overtime/extra allowance to work rest days would be the union's 'suggestion'. And yes, I do think they'd call for industrial action which may be an overtime ban, which would make the situation worse.

Fares didn't go up (except in the normal annual January increase) when London Midland were forced by the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to recruit more drivers and sort their weekend rostering.

Why should it be different on GWR (Great Western Railway)?

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
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Timmer
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« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2017, 14:38:34 »

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR (Great Western Railway) are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.
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broadgage
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« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2017, 14:50:45 »

And the unions would very quickly call a strike. Nice.

Striking because your employer is filling staffing gaps with managers to provide the advertised service? Not sure that would be a legal reason for a strike. Definitely sure it wouldn't go down well with passengers or the press.

I expect that the union would claim that the strike was about safety, as most disputes are claimed to be about safety these days. Any increase in wages or increase in union powers is purely coincidental.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
plymothian
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« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2017, 22:13:14 »

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR (Great Western Railway) are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

Maybe, just like passengers, the guards are fed up with the company not providing what it promises too.  It's bad enough working Mon-Sat on short formed services, let alone come in on a Sunday - when they're not contracted to - and work more intensive diagrams.  Several guards have said is all they've done for the past few years is apologise to passengers.

There is a general feeling around that the west has been left to rot by management.
West drivers are also peeved off due to the lack of company harmonisation.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2017, 06:32:18 »

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR (Great Western Railway) are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

That would require leadership and honesty......
don't hold your breath.
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grahame
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« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2017, 08:09:45 »

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR (Great Western Railway) are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

That would require leadership and honesty......
don't hold your breath.

Here's an explanation I have been offered (from a senior level within GWR) that does seem to make sense when you look at the arithmetic:
"More that usual train crew needing training at the same time"

Let's analyse that.

GWR has just over 5,000 staff (from here).

Training days delivered in 2015/16 = 20,600 and in 2016/17 = 22971. Planned for 2017/18 = 61,500 and for 2018/19 = 43,100. Those latter two figures say "includes data from new programmes and areas previously not reordered" which makes for figures we have to be careful about when we compare - I haven't a clue how many new areas have come in!  So that's 4.5 days per staff member in the year to March 2017, and over 12 days per staff member this year.

Can loss of availability of the average GWR staff member of 8 days of doing their regular job make a real difference?  Yes, and a significant one if
* staffing is already very close to being at its limits
* staff are already putting in as much overtime and Sundays as they want
* the extra training isn't even across the 5,000 but rather is skewed towards those moving train types
* Monday to Friday staff levels are maintained as prime goal, with shortages being managed to occur at the weekend
* training step-up didn't occur until the equipment on which to train (80x trains and 16x trains) was available.

If you loose the average staff member (yeah, I know - the operation team are all exceptional  Grin ) for 8 more weekend days over the 9 months from July 2017 to March 2018, that's a 10% loss from your staff pool, and that 10% shortage is going to be very hard indeed to fill week after week after week where the system is already close to its limit.

Come 3rd January 2018, the Westbury depot and staff based at Fratton and Weymouth too, should be switching overnight from driving 15x trains to 16x trains, and (unless we have a January 2007 style meltdown) training will need to be substantively completed by that point.  So even my 9 month estimate for extra training time may be too generous - we may be looking just over the final 6 calendar months of 2017, and the crew shortage creeps up to 15%. Realistically, it may be 20% or 25%, bearing in mind that the proportion of extra training for platform staff, ticket sellers, HQ (Headquarters) based staff, station maintenance teams, etc, is not going to be anything like as high as the driver and train manager extras.

The explanation also fits in with the metrics of where the staffing shortages are being seen - predominantly in Wessex (where trains are changing over) rather than further west. Further west, the main changes are the bolstering of stock of the same types they're already crewing and maintaining, with the loss of some 153 and the 150/1 units - so not the same "new unit" training needs.

You can question some of my fuzzy logic on figures and estimates. You can ask why Saturdays and Sundays have been targeted as the days on which any cuts are to fall.  You can ask whether mitigating actions have been considered / taken. I'm thinking of the  contracting SWR» (South Western Railway - about) staff from Salisbury, as they do a train.  I'm thinking of asking retiring staff to stay on for a final autumn to provide an extra staff availability during the changeover. I'm thinking of offering staff already trained earlier in the year (i.e. Bristol based crew) more shifts down to Westbury,  enabling the remaining Westbury crew with route knowledge to distant and remote places like Weymouth and Portsmouth to be concentrated on those services.

Some or even all of those thing may have been considered, may actually be being done - I have no data either way. Certainly the current drive to recruit more staff for Westbury looks like it's got an element of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted about it ... but it may well be setting things up for a much better 2018 if the initial training is towards 16x units, with only a couple of GWR calls of 158s at Westbury each way each day next year.

Edit to clarify source of suggestion
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 08:41:45 by grahame » Logged

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John R
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« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2017, 09:02:18 »

Maybe the training could/should have started earlier?  I'm sure there were a few turbos sitting at Reading depot during the middle of the day, just one of which could have made a daily trip to Westbury and back to train staff there. Or something similar.  Good management predicts this sort of issue and addresses it in good time, whereas GWR (Great Western Railway) appear to be shrugging their shoulders and letting the customers suffer.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2017, 12:27:35 »

Surely training has to be supplied *and work started using the training* within a certain time, or it will start getting forgotten?

Try learning something, then not needing to remember it for six months? Would you remember everything?
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John R
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« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2017, 13:13:44 »

That's a fair point, although a quick refresher is usually all that is needed once someone has been trained or learnt something.  I did my professional exams over 20 years ago, and no I don't remember everything, but it would be very quick to get back up to speed if I had to on a particular subject. 
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ChrisB
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« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2017, 14:13:38 »

|So another half-day refresher for all those staff (say just over half) who would have been first. That's another approx 10,000 equivalent days lost to training (20,000 half-days additional if the first 50% first trained go back for a refresher). That's a lot more cancellations through lack of drivers (even if only half of those returning were drivers)
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2017, 18:06:50 »

18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew

- one of 8 cancellations listed tonight for the same reason, so it's clearly becoming more than just a weekend issue.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2017, 18:19:51 »

See above in Graham's explanation from someone in the know. Training courses don't (just) run at weekends
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grahame
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« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2017, 13:36:03 »

Quote
2 Train Cancellations
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44
14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04

To be fair, it's GWR (Great Western Railway)'s trains to blame this time rather than lack of GWR staff.

The 12:47 from Swindon is - to be fair - the least bad train to loose all day. Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak
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bobm
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« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2017, 13:52:01 »

Quote
2 Train Cancellations
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44
14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04

To be fair, it's GWR (Great Western Railway)'s trains to blame this time rather than lack of GWR staff.

The 12:47 from Swindon is - to be fair - the least bad train to loose all day. Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak

Didn't have a text about the 12:47 but did for the 14:04.
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bobm
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« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2017, 14:10:10 »

Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak

It's gone

Quote
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:13/09/2017 14:05
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