My Get Me There - Manchester's Oyster?

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

It seems to me there are four different concepts being banded together under the umbrella term "Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)" (or "X-place's Oyster"). There is paperless ticketing, an idea implemented in a very simple way (tix by sms) by National Express coaches for some years and now in a complicated way by TfGM^▸ (Transport for Greater Manchester. ). There is a prepaid travel-specific debit card, which seems to have been the initial Oyster implementation by TfL^» (Transport for London - about). There is the travel-specific debit card but with post-payment facility and daily (or other time period) fare cap, which seems to be the the current Oyster. And there is the same but implemented via the bank card you already have rather than a specific card or app.

[ChrisB]

There is a prepaid travel-specific debit card, which seems to have been the initial Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) implementation by TfL^» (Transport for London - about). There is the travel-specific debit card but with post-payment facility and daily (or other time period) fare cap, which seems to be the the current Oyster. And there is the same but implemented via the bank card you already have rather than a specific card or app.

THe pre-paid card can have either or both cash or period ticket pre-paid & loaded on ito it - that is the original Oyster.
The second item isn't TfL (might be elsewhere though) and the latter is what is known as 'contactless' payment - what TfL now want everyone to migrate to.

[Bmblbzzz]

It's not only TfL^» (Transport for London - about) who want us to use contactless in preference to other forms of course, but isn't there a specific thing with TfL whereby if you purchase umpty travels in one day/week/etc it will be capped at whatever the cheapest possibility would have been (eg if you spend all day taking a thousand buses and tubes round Zone 1, you won't pay more than the cost of a Zone 1 travel card?)

[ChrisB]

Yep, capped at both a daily rate for the number of zones used in a day, and a Mon-Sun weekly rate based on zone usage that week - assuming you use the same card throughout.

Which is the same as Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card pay as you go.

[Bmblbzzz]

And completely different from what Manchester are offering.

I understand TfL^» (Transport for London - about) are pushing contactless over Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) now, presumably because the admin is done by banks rather than them. Easier for visitors too as no need to buy special card. Oyster remains attractive for kids, or rather for teenagers as kids go free in TfL, and for those who don't trust contactless.

I'm sure so sure something like that will be introduced here to go with MetroBus.*

*Blatant lie.

[IndustryInsider]

And for railcard holders, but I expect the usage of Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) is falling quite rapidly thanks to contactless.

[rogerpatenall]

TfGM^▸ (Transport for Greater Manchester. ) do seem to have gone to quite a lot of trouble to create a highly complex system with minimal benefit for anyone.

Sounds to me like the conclusions of a (large) committee, where everyone must have their equal say. Needs a strong Mayor, or chairman.

[Pb_devon]

Further to BB's point, and which II referred to, an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card is still an advantage if you're a railcard holder (e.g. senior), as this is the only way to obtain the lower fare.

[stuving]

Further to BB's point, and which II referred to, an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card is still an advantage if you're a railcard holder (e.g. senior), as this is the only way to obtain the lower fare.

I added my latest 3-year railcard to my Oyster recently, and was surprised to be told by the ticket clerk that he could only add one year and I'd need to redo it one year into the card's term. I'd never heard that before, so I enquired of TfL^» (Transport for London - about) whether that is a new restriction. This is the reply:

Thank you for your feedback form of 12 September about adding a Railcard discount to your Oyster card.

I’m sorry you were unaware we can only apply the discount onto the Oyster card for one year. I believe that it was possible to add the 3 years discount to the Oyster card, prior to the closure of our ticket offices. Although we’re closing Tube station ticket offices, our new ticket machines can complete a wide-range of transactions. Adding Railcard discounts to Oyster cards is one of them.

Your Railcard discount can also be added to your Oyster card at an Oyster Ticket Stop. When your discount expires please visit your most convenient London Underground station again. Please bring both your Railcard and Oyster card with you when you want this done.

I trust you will find the above information helpful.

Thanks again for contacting us. If there is anything else we can help you with, please reply to this email. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 and we’ll be happy to help you.

There are several odd things about this:

1. It is still "prior to the closure of our ticket offices". I used the office at Gunnersbury, i.e. Overground plus Tube.
2. I'm "unaware" of it because they have not published the information, at least not where I can find it. This is all I can find on TfL's site (via Google direct, or via the Oyster pages):

Setting Railcard discount on an Oyster card

If you have a 16-25, Senior, HM Forces or Disabled Persons Railcard, you need to get the discount set on an Oyster card. If you don't already have one, you'll need to get an Oyster card and register it.

You can get the discount set at Tube, London Overground, TfL Rail and some National Rail stations. To get the discount set at a Tube station, ask a member of staff to set it for you. You can also get the discount set at Oyster Ticket Stops and Visitor Centres. When you renew a National Railcard, you will need to get the discount set again on your Oyster card.

(from https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/adult-discounts-and-concessions/railcards).

3. As you can see, that is now (it appears) just wrong.
4. I presume that when they do close all the ticket offices, one option will be learn how to find Oyster Ticket Stops (or shops). I did a dry run for Richmond, a likely place for my entry into TfL-land, and the one close to the station appears to have changed hands (or at least franchise) and no longer shows the blue symbol. Hmm...
5. What are these "new ticket machines"? Fancier, and perhaps smarter, sales machines in stations?
6. If I can do this addition process with a machine in a station, why not on line, at least for railcards bought on line?
7. I don't think there is any way for me to check what railcard is on my Oyster card, not on line nor out in the real (or rail) world. Does that mean I have to remember when to do it? Note, I was told it would have to be after the railcard's first birthday, i.e. nothing to do with when I added it the first time.
8. And was I right to think I got all three years added in the past? My records of actual charges for travel (and time of journey) over the last ten years are very sketchy, so I have no 100% certain examples.

I do get the impression TfL regret offering this facility, and are hoping that if they keep quiet about it people will stop asking for it.

[Oxonhutch]

I do this every year with my Gold Card at Bond Street Station for the off-peak discounts. An SA uses one of the public machines in the ticket hall. They struggled at first with the ticket office closures but now appear to have got used to it.

[rogerw]

I can confirm that you could previously add the full term of a 3 year railcard on to Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services).  I think the TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s reply is not at all satisfactory.

[paul7575]

When I first got my 3 year senior card a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) CSA at Blackfriars loaded the discount with a three year expiry date using his staff login at a LU TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine).   So it didn't need a proper ticket office at that time i.e. just over two years ago.   I just had the discount re-loaded onto a replacement Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) Card and it was done by staff at a LU TVM at Charing Cross, she seemed totally familiar with the process, but by then I only had a year of validity left.

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) all the valid cards are just loaded as 'National Railcard', because they all have the same effect on Oyster PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) fares, there is no need to record the exact type of card.

Paul

[stuving]

When I sent my question to TfL^» (Transport for London - about), the page didn't respond so I hit the button again - and ended up sending it twice. I expected them to spot this (they were sent within 5 seconds) but in fact I just got an answer to the second (or maybe it was the first) from a different Customer Service Adviser. This one says:

Thanks for your web form on 12 September about linking your Senior Rail card to your Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card. I tried to call you on the number you have provided us, but I was unable to reach you.

I’m sorry you have not been able to find the information you were looking for. These will be linked together for a year. Although your Railcard is valid for 3 years, our systems automatically detach them after a year. This is because most cards issued are only valid for a year, before they have to be renewed.

As a precaution, we will inform customers to double check this after a year, to make sure they are still getting the discount they are entitled to.

That makes a little more sense. But it is still not clear why something true of other cards (even if they are "most") is now applying in this case - do they think there is a fraud issue? If the initial design could only handle one-year products (e.g. the expiry date was encoded with no year) that would explain the constraint. But in that case the multi-year term never could have been added, and in any case there are ways of overcoming it.

And I wonder if I should read "we will inform customers [when adding the railcard] to double check this after a year" or "after a year we will inform customers to double check this" - and how? They could do that by e-mail, but perhaps it would be helpful first to make the card and its expiry date visible in my account summary!