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Author Topic: December 18 Timetable Consultation  (Read 2133 times)
Timmer
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« on: September 29, 2017, 11:58:41 am »

Timetables now online:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/timetable-consultation

Happy reading!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 06:34:42 pm by grahame » Logged
paul7755
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 01:44:06 pm »

On the mainline changes west of Southampton, I think one of the subjects everyone was interested in was this new Portsmouth - Weymouth through service.  It is confirmed it is the existing all stations stopper from Portsmouth & Southsea that is extended through to Weymouth, but it has been moved round the clock face a little to form an xx00 departure from Southampton, so that long layover at Brockenhurst is no longer necessary.

There's also the new semi-fast SWR Portsmouth to Southampton that runs from the Harbour every hour, timed to depart Fareham for Southampton after the other TOC semi-fast services (ie the closely flighted set of SN, GW, SN trains), so it runs from Portsmouth to Fareham ahead of the Waterloo via Eastleigh service, but after the GWR Cardiff services.   Might take some of the load off the Cardiff train, if people notice it and prefer a 450 to a 158...
Paul
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rogerw
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 01:53:53 pm »

Looking at the Salisbury route there are significant additions.  Castle Cary, Bruton & Frome now have a "commuter" service to Waterloo together with other alterations to services.  Bristol gains an additional service from Waterloo (1624) together with a 2000 departure to Salisbury which connects into a Waterloo service. And, pause for fanfare of trumpets, Dilton Marsh now has through services to/from Waterloo.
We must bear in mind though that these are only proposals at this stage.

The link to the full consultation document is not there
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 04:03:29 pm »

And, pause for fanfare of trumpets, Dilton Marsh now has through services to/from Waterloo.

 Grin Grin

Do bear in mind that people want to make journeys from Dilton Marsh to other places too.  Currently, a 2 stop ride to the little village  Cheesy of Salisbury is possible at around 07:03 (arrival 07:36), then there's a service gap to 10:10, change at Warminster and get to Salisbury at 11:32, followed by the 11:13 that reaches Salisbury at 11:42.  And Dilton March is no longer a halt set in the midst of open fields ... its' between the housing of Westbury Leigh and of Dilton Marsh, ... extra services at 07:35 and 09:42, reaching Salisbury at 08:01 and 10:12 can make a massive difference.  Huge shame the 17:58 back from Salisbury doesn't call, but I suspect we could make a good point of asking for that; together with the 18:59 from Salisbury (which does call), you have a viable commuter service, and with a 13:52 back as well for people who want to pop into Salisbury for the morning.
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Timmer
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 05:01:40 pm »

Looking at the Salisbury route there are significant additions.  Castle Cary, Bruton & Frome now have a "commuter" service to Waterloo together with other alterations to services.  Bristol gains an additional service from Waterloo (1624) together with a 2000 departure to Salisbury which connects into a Waterloo service. And, pause for fanfare of trumpets, Dilton Marsh now has through services to/from Waterloo.
We must bear in mind though that these are only proposals at this stage.
Really pleased to see these extra services with the gap on the Bristol services between 12.20 and 19.20 finally 'plugged' with a service at 16.20.

I remember a few years back SWT planning to operate as many as five services to Bristol (paul7755 may be able to confirm this) but weren't able to for some reason so this goes a long way to providing a good service for Wiltshire north of Salisbury from Waterloo.

Looking at services to London from Weymouth, though there may be some lament in losing one of their direct services, they will now have a faster service to the capital to compensate as well as a useful second service to cover local journeys between Weymouth and Bournemouth.

The current timetable is not a good one with the second service leaving just 14 minutes after the faster service at 3 minutes past the hour stopping at all stations to Poole, then stopping at three stations between Bournemouth and Brockenhurst.

Good news for passengers from Wool travelling to London, this stop being added to all fast services not just afternoon trains out of London. I have a feeling those who use Hamworthy station won't be too pleased to lose there two trains an hour outside the peaks to London though.

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paul7755
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 05:17:21 pm »

I think there's going to be failry obvious complaints from a large number of the minor stations on the Southampton to Weymouth section where a change will be necessary for Waterloo. 

As I may have pointed out before though, this was all predictable if people had read the service specification spreadsheet that came out with the ITT.

Paul
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Timmer
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 05:22:08 pm »

I think there's going to be failry obvious complaints from a large number of the minor stations on the Southampton to Weymouth section where a change will be necessary for Waterloo. 

As I may have pointed out before though, this was all predictable if people had read the service specification spreadsheet that came out with the ITT.

Paul
It was. It's going to be interesting to see if SWR/Dft stand firm and push this timetable through without significant changes.
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paul7755
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 05:59:21 pm »

Since the link above was first posted the webpage has been updated to provide the actual consultation document.  Includes some of the rationale behind the changes.

Paul
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 06:01:50 pm »

Reading Platforms 4A/4B  Roll Eyes

Good to see the 4tph to Reading again as expected though
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didcotdean
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 06:18:19 pm »

I think there's going to be failry obvious complaints from a large number of the minor stations on the Southampton to Weymouth section where a change will be necessary for Waterloo. 

As I may have pointed out before though, this was all predictable if people had read the service specification spreadsheet that came out with the ITT.

I see that in some cases the journey could conceivably be quicker if there were some easements put in place to allow the connecting journey to be in the wrong direction. The obvious example to me is my old haunt of Upwey, where going to London is in the shoulder quicker initially going to Weymouth (maybe more if the GWR services were shewn). There used to be an easement in place to allow this from the days when stops at Upwey were limited, but this disappeared at some stage after the stops became hourly in both directions in 1988. I see though that if anything usage at this station is in decline - but it has been served almost entirely by the slower London service for some years.
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ZoŽ
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 06:26:16 pm »

I see the Exeter services will no longer be stopping at Clapham Junction but the trains which terminate at Salisbury will call there instead.  Not sure if this is a great idea or not since it's quite a useful stop if you are heading towards Brighton although it does shorten overall journey times.  Back in the day of the class 50s I can't ever remember stopping at Clapham Junction though,
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 06:32:59 pm by ZoŽ » Logged
John R
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 06:37:18 pm »

I think there's going to be failry obvious complaints from a large number of the minor stations on the Southampton to Weymouth section where a change will be necessary for Waterloo. 

As I may have pointed out before though, this was all predictable if people had read the service specification spreadsheet that came out with the ITT.

I see that in some cases the journey could conceivably be quicker if there were some easements put in place to allow the connecting journey to be in the wrong direction. The obvious example to me is my old haunt of Upwey, where going to London is in the shoulder quicker initially going to Weymouth (maybe more if the GWR services were shewn). There used to be an easement in place to allow this from the days when stops at Upwey were limited, but this disappeared at some stage after the stops became hourly in both directions in 1988. I see though that if anything usage at this station is in decline - but it has been served almost entirely by the slower London service for some years.

I do wonder how many tickets for those smaller stations are for stations beyond Southampton.  There appears to be a great kudos attached to having a London service but the further out one is I suspect the relevance reduces for smaller stations (there has been a similar debate about Stone station, which was proposed to lose its London service but get one to Birmingham instead). As an example, Holton Heath, Moreton and Upway only generate 130k entries and exits between them. Those with a reasonable flow will be keeping a through London service.
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stuving
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 07:03:04 pm »

Reading Platforms 4A/4B  Roll Eyes

That might still be the official name! Not for the platforms, obviously, but then this timetable doesn't have platform numbers for anywhere else. The point is that those three platforms are part of Reading station for signalling purposes, but operationally have to be separate, especially if you are running third-rail EMUs. Hence a label just for this part of the station.
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grahame
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 07:05:51 pm »

I do wonder how many tickets for those smaller stations are for stations beyond Southampton.  There appears to be a great kudos attached to having a London service but the further out one is I suspect the relevance reduces for smaller stations (there has been a similar debate about Stone station, which was proposed to lose its London service but get one to Birmingham instead). As an example, Holton Heath, Moreton and Upway only generate 130k entries and exits between them. Those with a reasonable flow will be keeping a through London service.

Fascinating discussions on this topic earlier today with someone who lives down there and came along to evaluate the Melksham Rail User Group's Railfuture entry.  The arithmetic that the professional and informed see from their heads on these things is not what the majority of railway customers feel in their hearts, and whilst the heart is often a good indicator, that's not always the case.

You talk of Stone and of Upwey.  There are others (of us) who look at through London service options, but in the end conclude that the balance of a good regional service, uncoupled from the mainline by having good connections into frequent long distance expresses that are passing, is a pretty good solution.   It means that there's an appropriate and economic shorter train running on the regional line - lower top speed, but better acceleration.  And it means that if there are main line delays (mind you, with perfect infrastructure in the Thame Valley, delays are rare  Grin ) the regional stations don't have to wait for their particular train to be clear of the logjam.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 07:30:03 pm »

I am far too removed to claim any personal knowledge (or indeed interest) of the present day situation at Upwey etc - although it may well be a concern in some circles that the usage in general on this line appears to be stagnant. It is of course not a coincidence that the stops remain on the trains most likely to be used by people going to London on business. Appropriate easements though ought to be considered alongside the timetable.
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