IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[grahame]

... not to have everything west of Penzance a a 5-car

 

[broadgage]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

[IndustryInsider]

... not to have everything west of Penzance a a 5-car

 

D’oh! 

[IndustryInsider]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

Do you mean current policy as the policy that is intended to apply after the new timetable is introduced and the whole 80x fleet is in service?

[broadgage]

I THINK that have read that the policy is that all services to the far West should normally be formed of a pair of 5car units to Plymouth and a single 5 car unit west thereof.

The 9 car units are apparently intended for other routes.

This is however relying on my perhaps imperfect memory, does anyone KNOW  what the plan is ?

[IndustryInsider]

I think (but don’t know) that many Cornwall services are planned to be 2x 5-car with a detachment at Plymouth, but many isn’t ‘all’.  I’ve heard difficulties with coupling is leading to a scaling down of the number of attachments/detachments over what was originally planned when everything was first ordered.

Perhaps Clarence Yard over on railforums can confirm the current plans?  I can’t see how a 14 strong fleet of trains specifically ordered for Devon and Cornwall can be kept completely clear of Cornwall though.

[Incider]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

It’s not done on purpose, but when necessity demands that a service be covered and the 407 or 408 buffet cars were in a failed set or there had been disruption, the vast majority would rather have a non Pullman service train home, than no train at all.

The efforts to keep the right buffet types on the Pullman services were substantial, but sometimes events (fatalities, signal failures, track defects, route closures or train failures to name but a few) on the railway mean no matter how much planning you do, all of your work ends in the bin and you start again.

I can guarantee there are Catering Co-ordinators at Paddington, Train Service Controller’s in Swindon and Maintenance Planners all doing there best to ensure the right buffet on the right service.

Now that should be a thing of the past, no variation in buffets, the different types of buffet in a HST had a wide variation of catering equipment depending in the type of buffet car, no such problem with an 80x.

[broadgage]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

It’s not done on purpose, but when necessity demands that a service be covered and the 407 or 408 buffet cars were in a failed set or there had been disruption, the vast majority would rather have a non Pullman service train home, than no train at all.

The efforts to keep the right buffet types on the Pullman services were substantial, but sometimes events (fatalities, signal failures, track defects, route closures or train failures to name but a few) on the railway mean no matter how much planning you do, all of your work ends in the bin and you start again.

I can guarantee there are Catering Co-ordinators at Paddington, Train Service Controller’s in Swindon and Maintenance Planners all doing there best to ensure the right buffet on the right service.

Now that should be a thing of the past, no variation in buffets, the different types of buffet in a HST had a wide variation of catering equipment depending in the type of buffet car, no such problem with an 80x.

Yes I know that the wrong sort of HST is not sent deliberately, but as a consequence of out of course events such as those listed.
If however some 5 car IETs are to become a "no catering" variant as has been suggested, then I predict that "wrong sort of DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)" Will become at least as frequent as the present "wrong sort of HST", and for similar reasons.

[1st fan]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

It’s not done on purpose, but when necessity demands that a service be covered and the 407 or 408 buffet cars were in a failed set or there had been disruption, the vast majority would rather have a non Pullman service train home, than no train at all.

The efforts to keep the right buffet types on the Pullman services were substantial, but sometimes events (fatalities, signal failures, track defects, route closures or train failures to name but a few) on the railway mean no matter how much planning you do, all of your work ends in the bin and you start again.

I can guarantee there are Catering Co-ordinators at Paddington, Train Service Controller’s in Swindon and Maintenance Planners all doing there best to ensure the right buffet on the right service.

Now that should be a thing of the past, no variation in buffets, the different types of buffet in a HST had a wide variation of catering equipment depending in the type of buffet car, no such problem with an 80x.

Agreed, no variation in buffet at all on an 80x
Yes you're right the kitchens are standardised on the 80x fleet. See https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2SY8DRCEAAq8WF.jpg and https://www.blanco-professional.com/files/jpg15/html/Railway_Produkte_kombiniert/1004x0505.jpg the left hand side picture obviously.

[stuving]

Perhaps Clarence Yard over on railforums can confirm the current plans?  I can’t see how a 14 strong fleet of trains specifically ordered for Devon and Cornwall can be kept completely clear of Cornwall though.

Historically, there were seven 802/1s in the original West of England order, and then seven more for - something that was never clear, but I think 9-car to correct the balance of the whole IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) fleet. However I spotted a post from CY on railforums, in answer to a similar comment about whether any of them would ever go to Cornwall, saying:

The cl.802 9 cars were not primarily "bought for" the West of England services - the initial 7 were about half and half for W of E and other routes and the second batch of 7 were for Oxford/growth on non W of E routes. In high summer, in the 2020 timetable, currently only around 4 to 5 of the 12 diagrams will be on W of E.

That point about not all of the first seven being for WoE duty surprised me (and others too).

[Incider]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

It’s not done on purpose, but when necessity demands that a service be covered and the 407 or 408 buffet cars were in a failed set or there had been disruption, the vast majority would rather have a non Pullman service train home, than no train at all.

The efforts to keep the right buffet types on the Pullman services were substantial, but sometimes events (fatalities, signal failures, track defects, route closures or train failures to name but a few) on the railway mean no matter how much planning you do, all of your work ends in the bin and you start again.

I can guarantee there are Catering Co-ordinators at Paddington, Train Service Controller’s in Swindon and Maintenance Planners all doing there best to ensure the right buffet on the right service.

Now that should be a thing of the past, no variation in buffets, the different types of buffet in a HST had a wide variation of catering equipment depending in the type of buffet car, no such problem with an 80x.

Agreed, no variation in buffet at all on an 80x
Yes you're right the kitchens are standardised on the 80x fleet. See https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2SY8DRCEAAq8WF.jpg and https://www.blanco-professional.com/files/jpg15/html/Railway_Produkte_kombiniert/1004x0505.jpg the left hand side picture obviously.

My point was about the catering equipment.

[IndustryInsider]

Perhaps Clarence Yard over on railforums can confirm the current plans?  I can’t see how a 14 strong fleet of trains specifically ordered for Devon and Cornwall can be kept completely clear of Cornwall though.

Historically, there were seven 802/1s in the original West of England order, and then seven more for - something that was never clear, but I think 9-car to correct the balance of the whole IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) fleet. However I spotted a post from CY on railforums, in answer to a similar comment about whether any of them would ever go to Cornwall, saying:

The cl.802 9 cars were not primarily "bought for" the West of England services - the initial 7 were about half and half for W of E and other routes and the second batch of 7 were for Oxford/growth on non W of E routes. In high summer, in the 2020 timetable, currently only around 4 to 5 of the 12 diagrams will be on W of E.

That point about not all of the first seven being for WoE duty surprised me (and others too).

Four or five diagrams covering, say, fifteen to twenty of the daily WoE services then?  Not all might be on services going beyond Plymouth of course, but I’d be very surprised if none were.

[1st fan]

I agree that a 9 car IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) would be preferable to 5+5 on Pullman services, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) the current policy is that all Cornish services are to be 5 car units, hopefully 5+5 at the London end.
Is anyone able to confirm or deny this ?

And as for 2 versions of 5 car units, with catering and without, I have no confidence whatsoever in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being able to diagram the right units for the right services. The have regularly sent the wrong sort of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for Pullman services.

It’s not done on purpose, but when necessity demands that a service be covered and the 407 or 408 buffet cars were in a failed set or there had been disruption, the vast majority would rather have a non Pullman service train home, than no train at all.

The efforts to keep the right buffet types on the Pullman services were substantial, but sometimes events (fatalities, signal failures, track defects, route closures or train failures to name but a few) on the railway mean no matter how much planning you do, all of your work ends in the bin and you start again.

I can guarantee there are Catering Co-ordinators at Paddington, Train Service Controller’s in Swindon and Maintenance Planners all doing there best to ensure the right buffet on the right service.

Now that should be a thing of the past, no variation in buffets, the different types of buffet in a HST had a wide variation of catering equipment depending in the type of buffet car, no such problem with an 80x.

Agreed, no variation in buffet at all on an 80x
Yes you're right the kitchens are standardised on the 80x fleet. See https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2SY8DRCEAAq8WF.jpg and https://www.blanco-professional.com/files/jpg15/html/Railway_Produkte_kombiniert/1004x0505.jpg the left hand side picture obviously.

My point was about the catering equipment.

Yes so was mine, apologies if pointing out the lack of buffet caused offence.

[Incider]

No offence here, just confirming I hadn’t confused things for readers.  Taking the buffets out was nothing to do with me 😀

[IndustryInsider]

No offence here, just confirming I hadn’t confused things for readers.  Taking the buffets out was nothing to do with me 😀

Trouble is it's now been sowed into Broadgage's mind!