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GBM
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« Reply #2070 on: October 31, 2019, 06:27:41 » |
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In think there's a unit down in Cornwall with a scratched nose that might account for one of those short formations.
Any ideas as to what happened please? |
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Personal opinion only. Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)  |
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Incider
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« Reply #2072 on: October 31, 2019, 08:40:29 » |
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In think there's a unit down in Cornwall with a scratched nose that might account for one of those short formations.
Any ideas as to what happened please? You are unlikely to get that posted on a public forum, by anyone who genuinely knows. |
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broadgage
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« Reply #2073 on: October 31, 2019, 12:18:30 » |
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Leaving aside the exact cause of the mishap at Penzance, it must be accepted that these sorts of minor accidents are part of running a railway.
It might never happen again in the exact same place, but it seems a reasonable supposition that something similar will happen again somewhere.
Fleet size and maintenance/repair arrangements really should allow for this sort of thing.
For two years we have had regular short formations, with various excuses offered. If a single minor and entirely foreseeable mishap results in short formations for a few months, that is very poor indeed.
Years ago, I forecast that short formations would be a regular feature. I based this forecast not on any detailed study or analysis, but simply on experience of other new train fleets. Progress I know, but still regrettable.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2074 on: October 31, 2019, 15:41:14 » |
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Just for clarification, I’ve ‘liked’ the first two paragraphs of Broadgage’s post only. Yes indeed there will be the odd mishap which should be absorbed by spare capacity within the fleet.
The other two paragraphs he’s said a thousand times before and bring nothing new to the party.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Incider
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« Reply #2075 on: October 31, 2019, 17:22:46 » |
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Leaving aside the exact cause of the mishap at Penzance, it must be accepted that these sorts of minor accidents are part of running a railway.
It might never happen again in the exact same place, but it seems a reasonable supposition that something similar will happen again somewhere.
Fleet size and maintenance/repair arrangements really should allow for this sort of thing.
For two years we have had regular short formations, with various excuses offered. If a single minor and entirely foreseeable mishap results in short formations for a few months, that is very poor indeed.
Years ago, I forecast that short formations would be a regular feature. I based this forecast not on any detailed study or analysis, but simply on experience of other new train fleets. Progress I know, but still regrettable.
Not sure I’d call in minor, if the bill was coming out of my pocket...... |
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broadgage
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« Reply #2076 on: October 31, 2019, 19:06:56 » |
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The mishap at Penzance resulted in no loss of life, and AFAIK▸ no injuries, the damage certainly looks repairable, I would be astonished if the vehicle is scrapped as a result.
Therefore it seems reasonable to refer to this as a minor accident.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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grahame
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« Reply #2077 on: October 31, 2019, 19:34:04 » |
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The mishap at Penzance resulted in no loss of life, and AFAIK▸ no injuries, the damage certainly looks repairable, I would be astonished if the vehicle is scrapped as a result.
Therefore it seems reasonable to refer to this as a minor accident.
This is how the road vehicle industry categorises A Scrap – complete vehicle crushed without any components being removed. B Break – body-shell/chassis crushed without any structural components being removed. S Structurally damaged but repairable. N Non-structurally damaged but repairable. And I would be a-MAZED if the Longrock unit is worse than an N. Minor in damage, but may be expensive to fix. Rather depends on whether they're built for each component switching (Lego train) if something gets damaged |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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stuving
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« Reply #2078 on: October 31, 2019, 19:52:19 » |
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The nose of the train is of course designed to deform in a controlled and progressive manner, so as to preserve the driver's safety cell. I can't see anything that says whether this part is integral with the welded body shell, or a bolt-on and thus replaceable piece part. There is, on the other hand, a lot in the TARA▸ about how the TSP▸ (Hitachi) will mend damage ASAP. 3. TSP COVENANTS
Maintenance, Damage and Vandalism
3.1 The TSP shall at all times maintain and repair each Set in the Fleet (including renewal of components) so that it is able to make Sets available to the Operator in accordance with Schedule 2 (Availability).
3.2 The TSP shall carry out all maintenance and repair of any damage whatsoever to a Set (including renewal of components) whether caused by wear and tear (subject to fair wear and tear), vandalism, Operator Misconduct, Major Incidents or otherwise howsoever.
3.3 Without limiting Paragraph 2, the TSP shall bear all of the costs of maintenance and repair (including renewal of components) required for performance of its obligations under this Agreement and without right of reimbursement or contribution from the Operator, save only to the extent provided for in Part E (Costs Payable by Operator) of Schedule 6 (Performance Regime).
3.4 The TSP shall, subject to and in accordance with Part E (Costs Payable by Operator) of Schedule 6 (Performance Regime), repair any Set that is damaged but is not a Total Loss as soon as reasonably practicable, unless otherwise agreed by the parties, and, if applicable, in accordance with any agreed Reinstatement Plan.
3.5 The TSP shall promptly, and in any event within five (5) Business Days of it becoming aware, inform the Operator of:
(a) any Set becoming a Damaged Set; and
(b) the date by which the TSP will have repaired such Set so that it may be made available to the Operator to satisfy the Dispatch Requirements.
3.6 The TSP shall procure that the Maintainer registers and maintains its registration on the national vehicle register for all Vehicles as the Entity in Charge of Maintenance. I take it this is a case of what the contract calls "Operator Misconduct". |
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Incider
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« Reply #2079 on: October 31, 2019, 20:05:17 » |
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The mishap at Penzance resulted in no loss of life, and AFAIK▸ no injuries, the damage certainly looks repairable, I would be astonished if the vehicle is scrapped as a result.
Therefore it seems reasonable to refer to this as a minor accident.
This is how the road vehicle industry categorises A Scrap – complete vehicle crushed without any components being removed. B Break – body-shell/chassis crushed without any structural components being removed. S Structurally damaged but repairable. N Non-structurally damaged but repairable. And I would be a-MAZED if the Longrock unit is worse than an N. Minor in damage, but may be expensive to fix. Rather depends on whether they're built for each component switching (Lego train) if something gets damaged Everything on trains is expensive to fix..... |
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TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #2080 on: October 31, 2019, 20:27:27 » |
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The nose of the train is of course designed to deform in a controlled and progressive manner, so as to preserve the driver's safety cell. I can't see anything that says whether this part is integral with the welded body shell, or a bolt-on and thus replaceable piece part. There is, on the other hand, a lot in the TARA▸ about how the TSP▸ (Hitachi) will mend damage ASAP. 3. TSP COVENANTS
Maintenance, Damage and Vandalism
3.1 The TSP shall at all times maintain and repair each Set in the Fleet (including renewal of components) so that it is able to make Sets available to the Operator in accordance with Schedule 2 (Availability).
3.2 The TSP shall carry out all maintenance and repair of any damage whatsoever to a Set (including renewal of components) whether caused by wear and tear (subject to fair wear and tear), vandalism, Operator Misconduct, Major Incidents or otherwise howsoever.
3.3 Without limiting Paragraph 2, the TSP shall bear all of the costs of maintenance and repair (including renewal of components) required for performance of its obligations under this Agreement and without right of reimbursement or contribution from the Operator, save only to the extent provided for in Part E (Costs Payable by Operator) of Schedule 6 (Performance Regime).
3.4 The TSP shall, subject to and in accordance with Part E (Costs Payable by Operator) of Schedule 6 (Performance Regime), repair any Set that is damaged but is not a Total Loss as soon as reasonably practicable, unless otherwise agreed by the parties, and, if applicable, in accordance with any agreed Reinstatement Plan.
3.5 The TSP shall promptly, and in any event within five (5) Business Days of it becoming aware, inform the Operator of:
(a) any Set becoming a Damaged Set; and
(b) the date by which the TSP will have repaired such Set so that it may be made available to the Operator to satisfy the Dispatch Requirements.
3.6 The TSP shall procure that the Maintainer registers and maintains its registration on the national vehicle register for all Vehicles as the Entity in Charge of Maintenance. I take it this is a case of what the contract calls "Operator Misconduct". So by now, we should assume that Hitachi will have told GWR▸ when it will be fit for action again. Sometimes, a slight-ish bump like that can be a lot worse because of damage to parts that are out of sight, but it's clearly low speed impact.
Everything on trains is expensive to fix.....
Not compared to aircraft! |
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Now, please!
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Henry
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« Reply #2081 on: November 02, 2019, 08:57:12 » |
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I had a Japanese motor bike in my teens (quite a few year's ago).
Seem to remember parts for that were really expensive.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #2082 on: November 04, 2019, 06:55:41 » |
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Shortform Monday...............5 instead of 9/10
04:47 Hereford to London Paddington due 07:52
05:07 London Paddington to Swansea due 08:58
05:53 Plymouth to London Paddington due 09:02
06:47 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:21
07:06 Newton Abbot to Paignton due 07:27
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:37
07:48 Paignton to London Paddington due 11:39
08:06 London Paddington to Newbury due 09:08
09:23 Newbury to London Paddington due 10:21
09:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:30
09:50 London Paddington to Oxford due 10:49
10:32 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 12:01
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:21
12:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 14:34
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:43
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 16:18
14:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:02
15:22 Worcester Shrub Hill to London Paddington due 17:28
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:12
15:33 Taunton to London Paddington due 17:53
16:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:44
16:57 Plymouth to London Paddington due 20:37
17:22 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:29
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:31
17:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:46
18:33 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 21:12
19:56 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 22:37
21:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 00:40
21:28 Taunton to London Paddington due 00:31
21:51 Hereford to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:39
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broadgage
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« Reply #2083 on: November 04, 2019, 08:39:18 » |
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Advocates of IETs▸ will no doubt say;
"this shows the splendid flexibility of the new trains, half a train is better than no train"
"less important at this time of year as the holiday season is over"
"it will get better"
Whereas I would say, as predicted. Advocates of IETs stating that I have said this "many times in the past and that repeating it brings nothing new to the party" Does not help relieve the overcrowding on the new shorter trains.
Action is needed.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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martyjon
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« Reply #2084 on: November 04, 2019, 08:50:26 » |
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Shortform Monday...............5 instead of 9/10
04:47 Hereford to London Paddington due 07:52
05:07 London Paddington to Swansea due 08:58
05:53 Plymouth to London Paddington due 09:02
06:47 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:21
07:06 Newton Abbot to Paignton due 07:27
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:37
07:48 Paignton to London Paddington due 11:39
08:06 London Paddington to Newbury due 09:08
09:23 Newbury to London Paddington due 10:21
09:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:30
09:50 London Paddington to Oxford due 10:49
10:32 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 12:01
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:21
12:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 14:34
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:43
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 16:18
14:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:02
15:22 Worcester Shrub Hill to London Paddington due 17:28
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:12
15:33 Taunton to London Paddington due 17:53
16:33 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:44
16:57 Plymouth to London Paddington due 20:37
17:22 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:29
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:31
17:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:46
18:33 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 21:12
19:56 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 22:37
21:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 00:40
21:28 Taunton to London Paddington due 00:31
21:51 Hereford to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:39
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