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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 547324 times)
Umberleigh
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« Reply #2340 on: March 04, 2020, 17:54:25 »

The extra capacity offered by the IET (Intercity Express Train) fleet is much welcomed and offers a good degree of future-proofing

The sets are quick, smart, good legroom, solid construction, good reservation systems and more tables.

But, not enough luggage space, First Class has been downgraded in terms of decor and comfort (the last leather seat refresh produced a very high standard of travel), the loss of the buffet for long-distance journeys and the whole concept of 5 car units (overcrowding, delay, extra staffing, trolley in the wrong set...). Oh, and where are the much vaunted improved new refreshment trolleys? The one I saw today must have seen services on a Wales & Wessex Alphaline.

So, some definite wins, but a bit ‘meh’ too.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #2341 on: March 04, 2020, 18:26:39 »

The sets are quick, smart, good legroom, solid construction, good reservation systems and more tables

Think you need to have a read of postings on other forums.  The trains are having a deep clean inside and out due to a lack of attention by HITACHI.  The suspension is also suffering from the wear and tear brought about by track condition on the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) line.  Excessive vibration if sat above a GU. Wheel flats being produced by the anti-wheelslip function.  Difficulties in drivers being able to correctly view buffer stops and trains being coupled up to.  Unable to reset seat reservations when train formations changed. The list goes on and on.......
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TonyK
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« Reply #2342 on: March 05, 2020, 11:05:16 »

I have never known the layout at Paddington to work like said 'clockwork'. 

I don't know about that. At least one of our members gets wound up regularly.
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Now, please!
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2343 on: March 06, 2020, 13:02:35 »

So I may not be Stuving, but here's my estimate:-

And neither am I, but I thought it would be fairly straightforward to work out how many more seats on the 'long distance'* services are being provided out of Paddington in that 4-hour evening peak I posted carriage numbers of a few days back, comparing 2011 with 2020.

2011:  Total of 32 departures giving 16800 seats (with 13 seven carriage trains and 19 eight carriage trains departing, using an average of 525 seats per train given the range of internal layouts).
2020:  Total of 39 departures giving 21687 seats (5x 5-car at 324 seats, 21x 9-car at 647 seats, 10x 10-car at 648 seats)

An increase of around 4900, or 29%.  This indicates that the increase in fleet size is more or less being provided in terms of seats as well, even when you don't include all IET (Intercity Express Train) trains*  The real number of available long distance seats is higher due to the number of trains now omitting Reading and the resultant lack of Reading commuters filling them up.

* To qualify for 'long distance' a train had to travel beyond the former NSE (Network South East) boundary, so IET/HST (High Speed Train)/180 operated services to Oxford, Bedwyn and Banbury do not qualify.  Neither do the additional fast PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-RDG(resolve)-DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) Class 387s that are now running in the peaks.
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
nickswift99
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« Reply #2344 on: March 06, 2020, 13:14:05 »

I've been following the capacity conversation in this thread for a while. While it's clear that there has been more capacity added in the last 2 years from Paddington, there seem to be concerns that that's not being experienced by passengers.

Is this because demand has significantly increased or because the capacity is not correctly aligned to the demand (e.g. more Reading passengers than expected now cramming into fewer trains)?

If it's because demand has increased, what the railway industry do next? Paddington is at capacity in the peak and apart from reliability issues with the 80x, there's little evident room to increase the number of carriages on each service.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2345 on: March 06, 2020, 13:51:39 »

There has indeed been significant extra capacity added, though it is hard to fully appreciate this when standing on a 5 car unit.

I can see two ways in which further capacity could be added.
Firstly, lengthen the  9 car IETs (Intercity Express Train) to 10 car. A 10 car unit should fit everywhere that can take a 5+5  since the length would be identical.

A more radical suggestion would be to restore to use the extended platform one at Paddington, formerly used for Motorail services. That would permit of a few double length trains in the peak. 9+9 or 10+10 IETs or whatever replaces them. Fast to Taunton where the train could divide. Front portion limited stop service to Penzance, rear portion all principle stations to Plymouth would be one possibility.
A small number of double length trains, perhaps five or six in the peak two hours, would provide considerable extra capacity.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #2346 on: March 06, 2020, 14:06:52 »

Ah.  But are those extra seats going to the places where they are actually needed?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2347 on: March 06, 2020, 14:41:57 »

I've been following the capacity conversation in this thread for a while. While it's clear that there has been more capacity added in the last 2 years from Paddington, there seem to be concerns that that's not being experienced by passengers.

Is this because demand has significantly increased or because the capacity is not correctly aligned to the demand (e.g. more Reading passengers than expected now cramming into fewer trains)?

If it's because demand has increased, what the railway industry do next? Paddington is at capacity in the peak and apart from reliability issues with the 80x, there's little evident room to increase the number of carriages on each service.

Demand has certainly increased significantly - and is likely to increase further, especially at the inner stations as far as Maidenhead - a glance out of the window from Ealing onwards will reveal just how many new properties are being built.  Capacity is reasonably well aligned with demand, though there is certainly work that could be done to fine tune certain trains.

There has indeed been significant extra capacity added, though it is hard to fully appreciate this when standing on a 5 car unit.

I can see two ways in which further capacity could be added.
Firstly, lengthen the  9 car IETs (Intercity Express Train) to 10 car. A 10 car unit should fit everywhere that can take a 5+5  since the length would be identical.

That is indeed the logical way forward and could add up to 2000 extra seats over the four hour period for example.  However, there would need to be infrastructure work at some stations and sidings/depots so it's not just a simple case of bunging on an extra carriage.

A more radical suggestion would be to restore to use the extended platform one at Paddington, formerly used for Motorail services. That would permit of a few double length trains in the peak. 9+9 or 10+10 IETs or whatever replaces them. Fast to Taunton where the train could divide. Front portion limited stop service to Penzance, rear portion all principle stations to Plymouth would be one possibility.
A small number of double length trains, perhaps five or six in the peak two hours, would provide considerable extra capacity.

Ah.  But are those extra seats going to the places where they are actually needed?

A much less likely scenario.  You have to consider...

1)  The cost of modification/rebuilding of the platform,
2)  The risk of having only one platform available for the five or six trains - what if there's a failure.
3)  IET modifications would be needed, mostly software only, but currently ten is the maximum that can operate in passenger service unless emergency rescue is taking place.

...but, most importantly...

4)  If you had six departures per the peak two hours, that's a train every 20 minutes with a first stop of Taunton giving over 7500 seats - there's no way that kind of demand will ever be close to being needed for Somerset, Devon and Cornwall no matter what time of day.

Two more likely/realistic capacity boosts can be had by:

1) Removing Heathrow Express trains in the peak hours and replacing their slots with longer distance services (though where the stock comes from is a different matter, and the eastern connection to Heathrow is looming in the distance).
2) Waiting for the efficiency gains given by ETCS (European Train Control System) Level 2 in-cab signalling - also looming in the distance!
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Umberleigh
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« Reply #2348 on: March 08, 2020, 19:40:55 »

The sets are quick, smart, good legroom, solid construction, good reservation systems and more tables

Think you need to have a read of postings on other forums.  The trains are having a deep clean inside and out due to a lack of attention by HITACHI.  The suspension is also suffering from the wear and tear brought about by track condition on the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) line.  Excessive vibration if sat above a GU. Wheel flats being produced by the anti-wheelslip function.  Difficulties in drivers being able to correctly view buffer stops and trains being coupled up to.  Unable to reset seat reservations when train formations changed. The list goes on and on.......

That’s an interesting read.

On reflection, I have to say that the IET (Intercity Express Train) windows always seem more grimy that the Castles (and from memory, the full-set HSTs (High Speed Train). This is for travel within Cornwall over the past seven months.

I also found myself wondering if the sets will start to rattle (more) as fixtures wear.
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Incider
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« Reply #2349 on: March 08, 2020, 22:56:18 »

The sets are quick, smart, good legroom, solid construction, good reservation systems and more tables

Think you need to have a read of postings on other forums.  The trains are having a deep clean inside and out due to a lack of attention by HITACHI.  The suspension is also suffering from the wear and tear brought about by track condition on the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) line.  Excessive vibration if sat above a GU. Wheel flats being produced by the anti-wheelslip function.  Difficulties in drivers being able to correctly view buffer stops and trains being coupled up to.  Unable to reset seat reservations when train formations changed. The list goes on and on.......

I wouldn’t believe everything you read on forums.  I’d like to see the source and proving data for some of those claims, I doubt you’ll find it.  Not sure how often you travel on them, but I suspect that you will not find anywhere near the level of wheel flats that’s were evident on HST (High Speed Train).  The Gotcha readings will back that up.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #2350 on: March 09, 2020, 17:14:40 »

The sets are quick, smart, good legroom, solid construction, good reservation systems and more tables

Think you need to have a read of postings on other forums.  The trains are having a deep clean inside and out due to a lack of attention by HITACHI.  The suspension is also suffering from the wear and tear brought about by track condition on the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) line.  Excessive vibration if sat above a GU. Wheel flats being produced by the anti-wheelslip function.  Difficulties in drivers being able to correctly view buffer stops and trains being coupled up to.  Unable to reset seat reservations when train formations changed. The list goes on and on.......

I wouldn’t believe everything you read on forums.  I’d like to see the source and proving data for some of those claims, I doubt you’ll find it.  Not sure how often you travel on them, but I suspect that you will not find anywhere near the level of wheel flats that’s were evident on HST (High Speed Train).  The Gotcha readings will back that up.

I was quoting from GWR (Great Western Railway) staff that drive or have to deal with the issues......
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initiation
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« Reply #2351 on: March 11, 2020, 08:19:21 »

I got the 1716 from temple meads last night (one of the Weston stopper IETs (Intercity Express Train)). Now I haven't got this particular train in a while (I've switched to a later one over a year or two Go) but used to use it regularly when it was a 8 car HST (High Speed Train).

5 carriages turned up the train was full and standing down the full length of the aisle. Compare that to my previous HST experience where generally everyone got a seat. Not great on one of the principal commuter trains.

The following 1816 and 1914 service is generally a 9 car IET but is much quieter.
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Celestial
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« Reply #2352 on: March 11, 2020, 10:24:28 »

I got the 1716 from temple meads last night (one of the Weston stopper IETs (Intercity Express Train)). Now I haven't got this particular train in a while (I've switched to a later one over a year or two Go) but used to use it regularly when it was a 8 car HST (High Speed Train).

5 carriages turned up the train was full and standing down the full length of the aisle. Compare that to my previous HST experience where generally everyone got a seat. Not great on one of the principal commuter trains.

The following 1816 and 1914 service is generally a 9 car IET but is much quieter.
There's another service 11 minutes later, which might have more space?
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Marlburian
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« Reply #2353 on: March 11, 2020, 12:42:03 »

An optimist reckons: "when these new trains are running at proper speeds (awaiting ETCS (European Train Control System) level 2 or 3) = Reading to Paddington will be in the 15 minute journey time range!"

He's commenting on the Berkshire Live news website about Reading's new Local Transport Strategy (which we're discussing elsewhere).
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2354 on: March 11, 2020, 14:22:25 »

I make that an average of 128mph.  Optimistic to an impossible level over such a short distance I’m afraid!   Grin

A couple of minutes could be shaved off, so perhaps a sub 20-minute timing might just be within reach, though that assumes 140mph working will ever actually happen as it doesn’t just rely on the signalling changing.
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