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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 543742 times)
ChrisB
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« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2017, 09:40:59 »

They were the replacement setr that formed the 0600 BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains), yes - so presumably they fixed the set(s) overnight
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2017, 09:50:22 »

It will certainly be interesting to see how performance improves (or not) on 1A03 up to Christmas, at least now I know where my seat is within the carriage (since the reserved seat turns out to be the same number now all the way through until then).

Although I'm not looking forward to the prospect of trying to guess which of the 4 possible carriage positions it will arrive in at Reading each day!

The slow boarding problem isn't likely to be solved soon as the train isn't designed with suburban commuting in mind, today if you happened to be slightly slow at getting to the door to leave you would have been met with a large flow and through the narrow vestibule passengers weren't making good progress as they met boarding passengers. Dwell time is likely therefore to be an issue if the train encounters a passenger needing assistance, used on routes where large luggage is common or the cyclists arrive and are not ready to sprint.

A sensible choice was made on the Old Oak set this morning to place the two first class sections in the centre of the train, fingers crossed in time that becomes the working practice as that would have a positive effect on dwell time.

From yesterday morning / Real Time Trains - Station dwell times of first servives of the IET (Intercity Express Train).  In all cases except Reading outbound, train did not leave on time so the duration is a measure of how long station duties took.

2.75 Bath Spa
2.0 Chippenham
3.0 Swindon
2.0 Didcot
2.5 Reading

5.0 Reading (awaiting time)
5.25 Didcot
3.0 Swindon
5.0 Chippenham
4.75 Bath Spa

I would expect these dwells to drop as people get used to the trains, and expect them to drop further as the fleet becomes uniform IET so that passengers don't have to go to different platform places for an IET and an HST (High Speed Train), and know what's arriving.   Helpful HST "Coach C is here" indicators at stations haven't (yet?) been enhanced with "IET coach C is here", and I don't the old orange and purple zone for which some signage persists has been re-enlivened.

Grahame, I would be a bit careful about the dwell times given by RTT» (Real Time Trains - website).  To the best of my knowledge they are measured by the signalling system recording occupation and clearance of the platform train detection system section and don't truly reflect the actual stop time.  So the arrival time is when the first wheel occupies the platform section and the departure time is when either the platform section clears or the next section ahead is occupied.  Some train detection sections are longer than the platform itself and some of the ahead ones are some distance from the platform end.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2017, 09:51:19 »

A telling comment from GWR (Great Western Railway) about their 'ownership' of this problem (and every other one on their franchise)...

From The Times this morning:

"A spokesman for Great Western Railway said: 'Hitachi will be investigating this matter thoroughly.'"

'A spokesman'  Roll Eyes

What is wrong with Hopwood? Surely he must realise it would be a sensible thing for him (or to direct one of his fellow senior managers) to speak to the press and his customers finally after all of the recent problems.

I personally think it was downright foolish to make such a fanfare about the new trains, they should've just quietly introduced them into service with no fuss on quieter off peak services. Enthusiasts would still have got their fix, probably no-one else would notice. Press get to play on a one off press special. Chucking one on a busy peak service was doomed from the start really, wasn't it?!
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grahame
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« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2017, 09:56:34 »

Grahame, I would be a bit careful about the dwell times given by RTT» (Real Time Trains - website).  To the best of my knowledge they are measured by the signalling system recording occupation and clearance of the platform train detection system section and don't truly reflect the actual stop time.  So the arrival time is when the first wheel occupies the platform and the departure time is when either the platform section clears or the next section ahead is occupied.  Some train detection sections are longer than the platform itself and some of the ahead ones are some distance from the platform end.

Caution (I think) understood, and good to be stated here.  I tend to use the time differences between arrival as comparisons rather than absolute figures, so I really should have quoted times for an HST (High Speed Train) at each location too, and one that's running slightly late so that I would be looking at true operational need.

Of course, all you need is one passenger who needs longer to get on or get off with assistance and the operational times of stops get blown anyway!
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« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2017, 10:11:00 »

'A spokesman'  Roll Eyes

What is wrong with Hopwood? Surely he must realise it would be a sensible thing for him (or to direct one of his fellow senior managers) to speak to the press and his customers finally after all of the recent problems.
Dan Panes appeared on both BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Points West and BBC South Today last night with regards to the problems experienced on the launch service. Regards last weekend's blockade at Reading he also appeared on BBC South Today on Friday evening.
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2017, 10:41:16 »

I travelled in from Reading to Paddington on one of the IETs (Intercity Express Train) this morning.

Very impressed with the smoothness of the ride. As did other posters I did notice some passengers hitting their heads on the luggage racks when they stood to get off.

I also notice that despite the coaches having seat reservation displays they were still using the old "card in top of seat" system. Is that because GWR (Great Western Railway) haven't got the processes in place to deal with this alternative method?

Like a lot of services this morning it was delayed and there were quite a few passengers standing in my coach. I'm guessing travellers haven't yet adjusted their optimal platform position to match the IETs formation

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ChrisB
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« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2017, 10:58:46 »

I also notice that despite the coaches having seat reservation displays they were still using the old "card in top of seat" system. Is that because GWR (Great Western Railway) haven't got the processes in place to deal with this alternative method?

My thoughts are that they're waiting for these trains to bed in before launching the online reservation system. Ben Rich also mentioned that they have the Voyager ability for on the day reservations and that they may go for reservations up to the point of departure from its originating station and that they would never go as far as XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and launch the 10-minute reservations that they offer, which will I'm sure be a relief to everyone.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2017, 11:00:20 »

'A spokesman'  Roll Eyes

What is wrong with Hopwood? Surely he must realise it would be a sensible thing for him (or to direct one of his fellow senior managers) to speak to the press and his customers finally after all of the recent problems.
Dan Panes appeared on both BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Points West and BBC South Today last night with regards to the problems experienced on the launch service. Regards last weekend's blockade at Reading he also appeared on BBC South Today on Friday evening.

Presumably he is the aforementioned spokesman, being head of communications, but really someone from the board ought to be piping up - the responsibility of running the company ultimately lies with the board of directors. It just seems a bit pathetic that Hitachi can wheel out their MD with an apology, but GWR (Great Western Railway) cannot, however he is happy to accept all sorts of corporate back slapping at industry award ceremonies and to meet the royals and Paddington bear...  Roll Eyes
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2017, 11:13:09 »

Thanks to Chris for his earlier reply to my question about seat reservations.

Another question about the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is - apart from the bloke up front - how many crew are needed to run the services ?There seemed to be quite a few disembarking at Paddington this morning. Is this complicated by the fact that, for example, each individual diagram (correct term?) of 5 coaches has it's own first class and buffet facilities so this means a double up?

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« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2017, 11:18:24 »

Thanks to Chris for his earlier reply to my question about seat reservations.

Another question about the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is - apart from the bloke up front - how many crew are needed to run the services ?There seemed to be quite a few disembarking at Paddington this morning. Is this complicated by the fact that, for example, each individual diagram (correct term?) of 5 coaches has it's own first class and buffet facilities so this means a double up?


Just to be pedantic, you either mean Trolley service, Kitchen or both because there sure as hell ain't no buffet.  Wink
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ChrisB
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« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2017, 11:20:20 »

Another question about the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is - apart from the bloke up front - how many crew are needed to run the services? There seemed to be quite a few disembarking at Paddington this morning. Is this complicated by the fact that, for example, each individual diagram (correct term?) of 5 coaches has it's own first class and buffet facilities so this means a double up?

It will do, yes.

I'm unsure of the usual number needed to run a 5car set - estimate being a driver, Train Manager, 1st class host & STD class trolley person - so 4. That'd then be 8 on a 10car.

Then you need to add the Pullman crew if it's one of those.

I think Ben mentioned that there would be 2 STD trolleys on a 9car, but we'll hjave to await their start in service to find out (January?)
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« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2017, 11:20:59 »

I believe that platform extensions are planned for the Cotswold Line and that 2x5 won't run until then. But what the state of that project is, who knows. References (both from 2016): http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/24011/enhancements-delivery-plan-change-control-october-december-2016.pdf, https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Modernising-the-Great-Western-railway.pdf

Until then, there's the 1x5 and 1x9 units.
The last time I was at Moreton there was nothing happening but that was late/end of summer and things might have changed. However I would expect to see press releases galore when the work does start given the publicity these trains are getting.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2017, 11:24:56 »

The CLPG» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) understands that the work is scheduled for the second half of 2019 & that only 5car IETs (Intercity Express Train) will run along there until then. Once work is complete, they still won't be more than 6car in length & the idea will be to stop 2 x 3cars of each set alongside & use SDO (Selective Door Opening) as currently for 9car & 10car sets.

The current intention is to run 5car sets joining to another 5car set at Oxford but in the high peak (maybe 2 trains) a full 10car train will run as I describe above.
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broadgage
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« Reply #118 on: October 17, 2017, 11:39:13 »

Thanks to Chris for his earlier reply to my question about seat reservations.

Another question about the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is - apart from the bloke up front - how many crew are needed to run the services ?There seemed to be quite a few disembarking at Paddington this morning. Is this complicated by the fact that, for example, each individual diagram (correct term?) of 5 coaches has it's own first class and buffet facilities so this means a double up?



What buffet facilities ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #119 on: October 17, 2017, 11:42:44 »

Well.....it's true on the IETs (Intercity Express Train). What else would you expect? GWR (Great Western Railway) aren't being allowerd anywhere near the ops side of the trains.

My point is that GWR singularly pointed the finger at Hitachi, with no attempt to take ownership or apologise themselves.  I would imagine that GWR managed the press attention for this event, got DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to attend, and would have been first off the train at Paddington proclaiming how wonderful 'their' new trains were (afterall, GWR are Building a Greater West singlehandedly aren't they!?!)  IF they had run to plan.
 
Will GWR be claiming in the future that the trains are nothing to do with them, and the track is nothing to do with them?
Will I only be able to contact GWR about their catering in the future?  Or is that Nescafe/Tetley's fault, and nothing to do with them?
 
To me it just begs the question of what ARE GWR responsible for, aside from posters and adverts?
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