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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 44942 times)
Jason
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« Reply #510 on: June 14, 2018, 09:26:17 am »

Cool. 1W02 is my usual evening service, I look forward to seeing how a 9-car unit operates.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #511 on: June 14, 2018, 10:48:50 am »

On a more positive note, chat (stolen from) elsewhere suggests 9-car IET entered service in the Cotswolds yesterday.

800304 formed the 1722 up the North Cotswolds yesterday as noted in the NC thread, yes.

There are many reasons in the supply contract with Hitachi why a set may get rejected by GWR, or Hitachi can fail to have enough sets ready. GWR get compensated for fewer sets than agreed being available/fully prepped.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #512 on: June 15, 2018, 06:33:27 am »

A busy (and overcrowded!_Friday for "Famous Fives" everywhere...

04:33 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 06:26
06:00 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 09:42
06:48 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:12
07:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 09:20
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:32
07:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:00
09:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 12:00
10:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:43
10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:52
12:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:44
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:21
12:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:08
12:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:14
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:14
14:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:42
14:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:02
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:40
16:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:46
17:15 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:20
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:31
18:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:31
20:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:37
21:28 Taunton to London Paddington due 00:31
22:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:03
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Timmer
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« Reply #513 on: June 15, 2018, 08:30:49 am »

All I can say after looking at that list thank goodness no IETs are diagrammed on routes to the SW yet with the busy summer season now upon us. Hopefully they will start with 9 carriage IETs and not 5 carriage. Sadly I don't think that will be the case. Hope I'm wrong.
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trainer
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« Reply #514 on: June 15, 2018, 05:36:12 pm »

Just a small point.  If the trains from Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour listed above are composed of 5 coaches then this is actually an increase over the previous norm of 3. Further, if they are IETs, this would be an upgrade on the promised Turbos.

On the other hand if that's a list of cancellations, I would consider it a downgrade.
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #515 on: June 15, 2018, 06:00:07 pm »

I believe its just simply a list of short forms in general, Taplow Green was purely highlighting the IET short forms from that list.
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FarWestJohn
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« Reply #516 on: June 15, 2018, 08:47:54 pm »

With the experiences I have had with 800s I am dreading the 802s coming to the south west. I can see there being riots at Plymouth if a 5 car turns up from Penzance and there is no crew for the 5 car waiting at Plymouth and it has to go forward with 2 units and 5 cars empty. How easy and quick is it to couple and uncouple a pair of 802s as I have not seen any mention of this and how reliable is it? The coupling of two five car 444s at Bournemouth is very slick even with corridor connections somehow I don't expect GWR to equal this.
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ray951
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« Reply #517 on: June 15, 2018, 09:12:14 pm »

800305, looking very bright and shiny,  was working the 1421 Paddington to Worcester today.
It looked her long and took up the whole length of platform 4 at Oxford. Are they longer than an 8 coach HST?
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broadgage
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« Reply #518 on: June 15, 2018, 09:14:31 pm »

I believe its just simply a list of short forms in general, Taplow Green was purely highlighting the IET short forms from that list.

I suspect that the list was MEANT to be a list of short formed IETS, and not a list of all short formed trains.
It would seem to contain at least two typos, trains that were probably short formed but NOT IETS.

IIRC, the short formations list earlier contained over 40 trains. Just over 20 IETs half length, and about the same number again of normal short formations mainly on the Cornish branch lines.

Good IET days seem to feature about a dozen short formations, and bad IET days about 20 half length units.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
broadgage
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« Reply #519 on: June 15, 2018, 09:27:05 pm »

With the experiences I have had with 800s I am dreading the 802s coming to the south west. I can see there being riots at Plymouth if a 5 car turns up from Penzance and there is no crew for the 5 car waiting at Plymouth and it has to go forward with 2 units and 5 cars empty. How easy and quick is it to couple and uncouple a pair of 802s as I have not seen any mention of this and how reliable is it? The coupling of two five car 444s at Bournemouth is very slick even with corridor connections somehow I don't expect GWR to equal this.

I agree.
And not just at Plymouth, imagine the scenes at Paddington when a 5 car unit turns up for the 18-03 or the 19-03 to Penzance.
And to those who say that it wont happen, experience beats optimistic forecasts !

Voyagers, too short from day one, and still too short many years later.
159s Waterloo to Exeter, too short for at least five years, and some are still too short.
Networkers in South east London, too short from day one and still too short after twenty years of 6 car rush hour trains that were previously 8 car.
First batch of IETs on GWR. largely short formed from the beginning, though will hopefully improve a bit.

So why should the longer distance  IETs be any different ?
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #520 on: June 16, 2018, 12:10:42 am »

How easy and quick is it to couple and uncouple a pair of 802s as I have not seen any mention of this and how reliable is it? The coupling of two five car 444s at Bournemouth is very slick even with corridor connections somehow I don't expect GWR to equal this.

The coupling/uncoupling procedure is pretty quick and straightforward, and will get slicker once crews have gotten used to it.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
grahame
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« Reply #521 on: June 16, 2018, 02:11:45 am »


And to those who say that it wont happen, experience beats optimistic forecasts !

Voyagers, too short from day one, and still too short many years later.
159s Waterloo to Exeter, too short for at least five years, and some are still too short.
Networkers in South east London, too short from day one and still too short after twenty years of 6 car rush hour trains that were previously 8 car.
First batch of IETs on GWR. largely short formed from the beginning, though will hopefully improve a bit.

So why should the longer distance  IETs be any different ?

You have a cynical bias at time, Broadgage ... but I have to say that I utterly agree with your questioning of IET train lengths.   This forum largely came about due to the dramatic reductions in services in December 2006, including the trimming back of the Cardiff to Portsmouth services from 3 to 2 carriages.
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devonexpress
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« Reply #522 on: June 16, 2018, 11:44:40 am »

I've tried to stay positive throughout their introduction, but this is now becoming a shambles. What makes it worse is that the DFT have made all redundant HST's leave the franchise(apart from ones being made into 4 car Castles) so there is nothing to cover the service at all!   My personal belief is that all IET's at some point should be reformed into 8 or 9 cars (no doubling up).  And I'm starting to think a buffet should be reintroduced, I.e a proper buffet, no just a mini buffet, but moving the kitchen from First Class and making the area where it has vacated into bicycle storage.
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broadgage
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« Reply #523 on: June 16, 2018, 12:31:08 pm »

I've tried to stay positive throughout their introduction, but this is now becoming a shambles. What makes it worse is that the DFT have made all redundant HST's leave the franchise(apart from ones being made into 4 car Castles) so there is nothing to cover the service at all!   My personal belief is that all IET's at some point should be reformed into 8 or 9 cars (no doubling up).  And I'm starting to think a buffet should be reintroduced, I.e a proper buffet, no just a mini buffet, but moving the kitchen from First Class and making the area where it has vacated into bicycle storage.

I very largely agree, but with the space taken up by a proper buffet, feel that 10 vehicles would be needed so as to provide this facility without reduction in seating.

Build extra vehicles, incorporating a full proper buffet. Put these in the middle of the standard class section of existing 9 car sets so that no standard class passenger has to walk too far.
A large buffet servery in the middle of the vehicle, equipped to serve hot and cold drinks and cooked to order hot snacks such as bacon rolls, fried eggs on toast and the like. Each end of the vehicle to have longitudinal seating with standing space equipped with grab rails and small tables.
Many longer distance commuters might actually PREFER to stand if in convivial company and enjoying freshly cooked bacon rolls and proper coffee in the morning , or a good choice of alcoholic drink in the evening.
Every passenger standing through choice is another seat free for those who want to sit down.

I would keep the present catering arrangements for first class, in order that the long walk from first to the buffet is of no consequence.
I would reduce the seating capacity in standard class by 4 seats per vehicle in order to provide more table seats.

I would lengthen all the 9 car sets to 10 car by the addition of the new "broadgage buffets"

I would modify about half of the 5 car sets into 10 car. 9 car made into 10 car, and 5 car made into 10 car should have identical or VERY similar interior fit out.

I would keep about half of the 5 car sets as existing, without buffet. I can see the merit of a limited number of lower specification and shorter trains for lightly used services.



« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:41:13 pm by broadgage » Logged

"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
broadgage
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« Reply #524 on: June 16, 2018, 12:59:34 pm »

Suggested stock list for broadgage buffet, showing the greatly improved choice and quality versus a trolley.

Cold sandwiches, choice of 6 including two luxury or premium choices and 4 budget options.
4 flavours of crisps, 2 sorts of peanuts.
3 choices of sweet biscuits, 3 choices of savoury biscuits, 3 types of cake portions.
pork pies, scotch eggs, hot pies, pasties.

Several choices of coffee, several types of tea, hot chocolate, instant soup.

Choice of cold drinks including 500ml bottles of water, cola and fruit juice.

A choice of about 6 cooked to order hot snacks such as bacon rolls, fried egg sandwiches, toasted ham and cheese sandwiches.

A good choice of spirits in miniature bottles, gin, vodka, several different whiskies, dark rum, white rum, brandy.
A reasonable choice of mixers including ginger ale, tonic, cola, soda water.
3 choices of lager, 3 choices of ale.
2 red wines in full bottles, 2 in half bottles, ditto for white
Champagne. Half bottles of port
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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