IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Agree, the end or driving vehicle is first class, but has very limited seating. The adjacent vehicle has some first class but mainly standard. Total first class seating is 36.

The seats are hard, and the interiors very basic, certainly don't feel like an intercity train. More like a regional DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) at best.

[CMRail]

Apparently the timetable change means that the 802s can’t run until May!
So says another very reliable local news website.

Quote from Cornish Live

The new generation of Great Western Railway's intercity express trains will not run on the Paddington to Penzance line until May 2019.

The new trains were planned for early 2019 but Network Rail has now pushed back timetable changes.


The first Class 800 carrying passengers from London Paddington to Devon along the iconic Dawlish seawall line arrived in Paignton on Saturday.

But a newer Class 802 version is being specifically built in Italy to cope with the steep gradients at Totnes so that the trains can run all the way through to Cornwall.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) transformation director Richard Rowland said: “From later this summer, our customers in Devon and Cornwall will see more of these new trains when we introduce our Class 802 versions, which were specifically built to deal with the steep gradients en route to Penzance.”

This report makes no sence. They are saying at one point they are being modified (no, they are being designed to cope with) and the next minute it is because of the timetable.

Ah. The joy of the news.

[JayMac]

That article, seen across Cornwall Live, Devon Live, Somerset Live is, not to put to fine a point on it, poppycock.

The 802s will be introduced incrementally up to the timetable change scheduled for May 2019. They are not being modified, they have been designed from day one to cope with the route from Paddington to Penzance via the Berks & Hants, with additional diesel engine power to cope with the hilly route between Newton Abbot & Plymouth. They have been testing on this route for several months now without major issue.

[PhilWakely]

That article, seen across Cornwall Live, Devon Live, Somerset Live is, not to put to fine a point on it, poppycock.

Agree entirely with BNM. Also, for those of you who did read the article(s), I guess you would have noticed that the forum's own bobm features with his pictures 

[bobm]

Thanks Phil - but the good news is readers here saw the photos first!

[Timmer]

That article, seen across Cornwall Live, Devon Live, Somerset Live is, not to put to fine a point on it, poppycock.

Like most of what appears on these xxxxxx Live websites/Facebook pages. It's not journalism just click bait.

[devonexpress]

Apparently the timetable change means that the 802s can’t run until May!
So says another very reliable local news website.

Quote from Cornish Live

The new generation of Great Western Railway's intercity express trains will not run on the Paddington to Penzance line until May 2019.

The new trains were planned for early 2019 but Network Rail has now pushed back timetable changes.


The first Class 800 carrying passengers from London Paddington to Devon along the iconic Dawlish seawall line arrived in Paignton on Saturday.

But a newer Class 802 version is being specifically built in Italy to cope with the steep gradients at Totnes so that the trains can run all the way through to Cornwall.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) transformation director Richard Rowland said: “From later this summer, our customers in Devon and Cornwall will see more of these new trains when we introduce our Class 802 versions, which were specifically built to deal with the steep gradients en route to Penzance.”

This report makes no sence. They are saying at one point they are being modified (no, they are being designed to cope with) and the next minute it is because of the timetable.

Ah. The joy of the news.

The joys of modern journalism, where some idiot who's left college gets to write about something they have no idea or interest in!  Someone should tell Cornish Live that story is fake news

[patch38]

Apologies if this has been asked/answered before but is it assumed that all IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) run on the wires from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to Didcot now? Reason for asking is that I was on the 1900 to Temple Meads yesterday (two 5-cars, both in service) and it definitely left both PAD and RDG^‡(resolve) under diesel power. I didn't notice if the pans were up or down when I boarded and couldn't be bothered to hop out at RDG to check. 

[bobm]

A couple of 802s out on test today.



802 006 running from Stoke Gifford to Plymouth





802 101 running from Plymouth to Exeter St Davids

[bobm]

Apologies if this has been asked/answered before but is it assumed that all IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) run on the wires from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to Didcot now? Reason for asking is that I was on the 1900 to Temple Meads yesterday (two 5-cars, both in service) and it definitely left both PAD and RDG^‡(resolve) under diesel power. I didn't notice if the pans were up or down when I boarded and couldn't be bothered to hop out at RDG to check. 

There are a few sets restricted to running on diesel only apparently.

[CMRail]

A couple of 802s out on test today.



802 006 running from Stoke Gifford to Plymouth





802 101 running from Plymouth to Exeter St Davids

Wonderful photos. Not long until the days of me waiting at Didcot and Swindon in the rain for a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to turn up, beautiful trains. Will be missed.

[broadgage]

Good pictures.
I rather like the external appearance of these units, and I consider that Bi-mode is better than all diesel.

My objections are to the interior layout and design.
Make them 10 car (keep a limited number of 5 car for portion working and lightly used services, but mostly 10 car)
Add a proper hot buffet.
4 fewer seats per vehicle to give more table seats (and thereby more luggage space between the seat backs).
Add padding to the seats.
Make the interior a bit more cheerful looking.

And I would consider them to be acceptable by modern standards

[chuffed]

Hear, hear to all your comments broadgage....but knowing of your prediliction for fine dining, I would have thought a proper hot buffet would have been top of the list !

[grahame]

Good pictures.
I rather like the external appearance of these units, and I consider that Bi-mode is better than all diesel.

My objections are to the interior layout and design.
Make them 10 car (keep a limited number of 5 car for portion working and lightly used services, but mostly 10 car)
Add a proper hot buffet.
4 fewer seats per vehicle to give more table seats (and thereby more luggage space between the seat backs).
Add padding to the seats.
Make the interior a bit more cheerful looking.

And I would consider them to be acceptable by modern standards

Now - perhaps that's an early major refit - or would you consider something more radical such as keeping the production line going with modified internals, and cascading the earlier trains onto the Cross Country routes, 5 cars replacing their current 4 car trains, and bimodes running electric from Bromsgrove to Birmingham / Manchesters, and from Yorkshire up to the Scottish Lowlands?

[broadgage]

I put lengthening to 10 car first in my list, as that is the only way to provide a proper hot buffet without loss of seating.
Remove 4 seats from most vehicles to give more tables,that means a loss of about 24 seats.
Add a buffet  car with a decent size servery and there should be room for about 44 seats, so only a slight net gain, but still a gain, and a much more comfortable train as well.

Even on an intercity train, I would consider longitudinal seating to be acceptable but ONLY in the buffet car. With a central servery counter, and longitudinal seating at each end, there would be plenty of standing room.
I have long held the view that many people PREFER to stand if in convivial company and taking a drink, just as many people choose to stand in a public house, despite the availability of seats.
On a busy train, perhaps 40 customers standing THROUGH CHOICE in the buffet means 40 more seats available for other customers, a most useful gain in capacity.
Plenty of strong grab rails, and small tables would be a requirement.

I am no good at drawing on a PC, nor at posting images. Would some expert care to produce a drawing and post it,  showing their interpretation of my suggestion. I would reply.