IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues

[whole diary]

[bobm]

I am also aware it was swapped from a 9 car 800 as 800s apparently aren’t allowed to stable at Long Rock

[broadgage]

Years ago, I expressed the view that a pair of 5 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) were unsuited to a long distance train with a Pullman restaurant.
Advocates of the new units felt that I was being unduly negative "before we have even seen a new train" and pointed out that a single 9 car unit would be more suited and would "presumably" be used.

Much more recently I made broadly similar comments about the unsuitability of a pair of 5 car units, and advocates, whilst admitting that MOST west country services would be 5 car units (hopefully in pairs) suggested that the Pullmans could be full length.

Now that the great downgrade is nearly complete, the 18-03 is formed of 5 car units.
Is not progress wonderful.

As it is now admitted that a full length IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) cant fit in the depot, we are presumably stuck with 5 cars for years.
Restaurant only available to half the train, probably random as to which half.
And very limited NON DINING space for any first class customer who gets in the wrong portion.

[grahame]

As it is now admitted that a full length IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) cant fit in the depot, we are presumably stuck with 5 cars for years.

I'm not sure where that has been "admitted" or that it's correct.  What  I think I read was an issue with class 800 trains (versus class 802), and if that's the case it's likely to be a contractual problem about who maintains / services the trains - wrong owner's depot.  Cn someone clarify?

[bobm]

Restaurant only available to half the train, probably random as to which half.
And very limited NON DINING space for any first class customer who gets in the wrong portion.

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

[IndustryInsider]

It was a 10-car last night as far a Plymouth, 5-car beyond.  15 minutes late departing Reading, 5 minutes late arriving Plymouth, on time from Liskeard onwards.  Reading to Plymouth in an impressive 2h 37 when you take into account it stops at Newbury, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot and Totnes.

[PhilWakely]

Restaurant only available to half the train, probably random as to which half.
And very limited NON DINING space for any first class customer who gets in the wrong portion.

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

All very well when reserving your seat - particularly as a 2x5 can turn up in any formation.

[broadgage]

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

A bit better than random locations.
Still a significant downgrade though if compared to a proper inter city train.
Any dining customers going beyond Plymouth will have to alight there and walk along the platform to the front set, hoping that seats remain therein.
Non dining customers will largely have to use the front set, and wont be able to access the Pullman if they change their minds and fancy a meal.

And of course the position will no doubt be reversed at times, with restaurant in the front unit which means that non dining first class customers will have to use the rear unit and change at Plymouth, again hoping that seats remain.

And of course the risk of only a single DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) from London. And of the attaching and splitting at Plymouth going wrong.

[TaplowGreen]

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

A bit better than random locations.
Still a significant downgrade though if compared to a proper inter city train.
Any dining customers going beyond Plymouth will have to alight there and walk along the platform to the front set, hoping that seats remain therein.
Non dining customers will largely have to use the front set, and wont be able to access the Pullman if they change their minds and fancy a meal.

And of course the position will no doubt be reversed at times, with restaurant in the front unit which means that non dining first class customers will have to use the rear unit and change at Plymouth, again hoping that seats remain.

And of course the risk of only a single DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) from London. And of the attaching and splitting at Plymouth going wrong.

First class seats - First World problems 

[Celestial]

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

A bit better than random locations.
Still a significant downgrade though if compared to a proper inter city train.
Any dining customers going beyond Plymouth will have to alight there and walk along the platform to the front set, hoping that seats remain therein.
Non dining customers will largely have to use the front set, and wont be able to access the Pullman if they change their minds and fancy a meal.

And of course the position will no doubt be reversed at times, with restaurant in the front unit which means that non dining first class customers will have to use the rear unit and change at Plymouth, again hoping that seats remain.

And of course the risk of only a single DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) from London. And of the attaching and splitting at Plymouth going wrong.

I think you're getting this way out of all proportion, Broadgage.  If five coaches is adequate for the number of passengers beyond Plymouth, and I would guess most of the time it will be, then it would be ludicrous to run all ten, simply because someone further up the line might change their mind and want a meal half way through their journey.  Or because someone might have to move seats at Plymouth, and might not find a seat available.  How many Pullman diners are there a day?  Is GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) really going to plan the number of units used around satisfying every last eventuality of those few?

In the few months since I've joined, I've been impressed by the varied nature of posts here, and the depth of knowledge of many.  I think I've learned a lot too.  But your continual bleating about IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) stands out by its repetitive nature.  If there's nothing new to say, it's probably best not to say it again.  I don't like the hard seats and the lack of buffet on IET either, but GWR was dealt its hand by the DfT, and I don't think it's going to change.  Sorry if you think I'm speaking out of order.  No doubt the moderators will tell me so!

[broadgage]

I disagree with your views, but would not consider that you are in any way acting improperly by expressing such views, I see no need for any moderation action re your post.

My concerns are not just with the downgraded experience offered by the new trains, but also that advocates of the new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) have had to "change tack" from "they will be fine, don't knock them until you have seen them"  to the newer remarks.

Years ago I forecast, and then stated as a fact that the new units would not have buffets, this was widely criticised as being unduly negative before anyone had even seen one. They don't have buffets.
But don't worry, no one wants a buffet these days, surveys prove it. Any anyway we can blame it on someone else.

I also forecast that most of the fleet would be short units, Over half are 5 car.
I further forecast that single 5 car units would become a regular feature, as has happened.

When I pointed out the unsuitability of 5 car DMUs for long distance services with a restaurant, this was countered with the suggestion that 9 car units could be used.
Now confirmed as 5 car for such services, but don't worry, only a minority use the restaurant.

I also forecast that the refreshment trolley would be very limited in its choice, and would regularly be in the other unit of a 5+5 train, as has happened.

Still it is called progress.

[IndustryInsider]

If there's nothing new to say, it's probably best not to say it again. 

Years ago I forecast, and then stated as a fact that the new units would not have buffets, this was widely criticised as being unduly negative before anyone had even seen one. They don't have buffets.
But don't worry, no one wants a buffet these days, surveys prove it. Any anyway we can blame it on someone else.

I also forecast that most of the fleet would be short units, Over half are 5 car.
I further forecast that single 5 car units would become a regular feature, as has happened.

When I pointed out the unsuitability of 5 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) for long distance services with a restaurant, this was countered with the suggestion that 9 car units could be used.
Now confirmed as 5 car for such services, but don't worry, only a minority use the restaurant.

I also forecast that the refreshment trolley would be very limited in its choice, and would regularly be in the other unit of a 5+5 train, as has happened.

Still it is called progress.

Love it! 

[grahame]

While I was writing this, the post from broadgage was added.    Still posting ... from a quick look I think we're all seeing the same lines drawn.

Oh heck - and another post 

... Sorry if you think I'm speaking out of order.  No doubt the moderators will tell me so!

You offer the moderators a hook onto which to hang comment.

We are a broad forum and welcome all views, and discussions behind those views where they differ.

Now I have come to learn over the years that there gets to be a point at which the expression and re-expression of the same view, with little change of development, can be respected as "sticking to your guns" but at the same time can lessen the impact each time it's repeated on the basis of "oh, it's just XXXXX again".  And it can even get to the point that something is so often repeated that it has a net negative effect when it rears its head yet again.   Something I learned when campaigning for a better train service at Melksham, in the days that if you missed the 06:38 your next train was at 19:12 ... I didn't stop calling for a few trains in between,  but I realised that to do so on every post was not effective.   An approach I feel that a couple of people I know might consider.

There's also, from a campaigning viewpoint, a lot to be gained from looking at the final destination - what's really important for you to achieve. Take a  pragmatic view of the various routes headed there, which are open (or at least unlocked) doors, and which doors have been locked shut, nailed and glued for good measure and in a blaze of publicity by the decision makers.  And it makes far better use of time and resources to see if we can reach that final destination through the open or unlocked doors. Reserve a battering at the locked doors for cases where it's really necessary, where we have a good team behind us rather than being a lone voice, and where the change sought is likely to be practical.

I am not going to stop a member posting on topic even if (to a degree) that makes others slightly uncomfortable.  I have been asked in the past for an "ignore this member" facility - not relating to this thread; it's not there in the software but it probably will be in the next generation.   Personally I will not use it, and I'm certain there will be an extra rule that says "do not ignore a moderator"

Equally, I'm not going to stop a member commenting to another that he feels that other member is repeating something to the extent that he's lessening his case, and also leading to discomfort.   That's what I believe happened here.  Once it get's personal, the moderator team will step in, though ...

[1st fan]

Apparently the instruction is the Pullman should always be in the set at the London end.

A bit better than random locations.
Still a significant downgrade though if compared to a proper inter city train.
Any dining customers going beyond Plymouth will have to alight there and walk along the platform to the front set, hoping that seats remain therein.
Non dining customers will largely have to use the front set, and wont be able to access the Pullman if they change their minds and fancy a meal.

And of course the position will no doubt be reversed at times, with restaurant in the front unit which means that non dining first class customers will have to use the rear unit and change at Plymouth, again hoping that seats remain.

And of course the risk of only a single DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) from London. And of the attaching and splitting at Plymouth going wrong.

I think you're getting this way out of all proportion, Broadgage.  If five coaches is adequate for the number of passengers beyond Plymouth, and I would guess most of the time it will be, then it would be ludicrous to run all ten, simply because someone further up the line might change their mind and want a meal half way through their journey.  Or because someone might have to move seats at Plymouth, and might not find a seat available.  How many Pullman diners are there a day?  Is GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) really going to plan the number of units used around satisfying every last eventuality of those few?

In the few months since I've joined, I've been impressed by the varied nature of posts here, and the depth of knowledge of many.  I think I've learned a lot too.  But your continual bleating about IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) stands out by its repetitive nature.  If there's nothing new to say, it's probably best not to say it again.  I don't like the hard seats and the lack of buffet on IET either, but GWR was dealt its hand by the DfT, and I don't think it's going to change.  Sorry if you think I'm speaking out of order.  No doubt the moderators will tell me so!

I think and have said before that these new trains are very fast and so far on my journeys have proved reliable in getting me from A to B. I don't really care what power is used to get me there be it. electricity, diesel or unicorns.  However compared to the interior of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) especially on seat comfort in 1st they leave a lot to be desired. Also the trolleys we were promised on this site by the then operations director of GWR would be a significant step up from the existing ones. Sadly despite there being models out there that can take a propper coffee machine they haven't been changed much from the HST. That is if you exclude the fact that they're now owned by Hitachi and not GWR. On long distance services the freshly ground options for coffee have dropped from  Americano, Cappuccino, Cafe Latte & Espresso to instant. One of my friends is furious about this because she's a caffeine fiend (her description) and describes instant as a series of four letter words and variations of such words.

I am somebody who will pay for 1st and it says something where the carpet is softer than the sear fabric. Even worse the 1st seats on a Turbo are more comfortable than those on the IET. That cannot be right in any universe. Now whilst I'll admit seat comfort is subjective and definitely a first world problem, it doesn't make it any less annoying.

[stuving]

I am somebody who will pay for 1st and it says something where the carpet is softer than the sear fabric. Even worse the 1st seats on a Turbo are more comfortable than those on the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train). That cannot be right in any universe. Now whilst I'll admit seat comfort is subjective and definitely a first world problem, it doesn't make it any less annoying.

Someone passed on to me, as said to him by no less than Mark Hopwood himself, that the seats in IET 1st class are now going to be replaced so as to increase the specialness of 1st. Anyone else heard that?

[Oxonhutch]

Someone passed on to me, as said to him by no less than Mark Hopwood himself, that the seats in IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) 1st class are now going to be replaced so as to increase the specialness of 1st. Anyone else heard that?

No. But it would be most welcome.