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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 213413 times)
Timmer
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« Reply #2040 on: October 03, 2019, 11:02:44 am »

Oh dear LNER have caught 5vice10 now they've bought their five car sets into service:

From Twitter: https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1179685594340966400

#LNERUpdate Facilities on the 10.06 #KingsCross to #Newark Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. There are no reservations on this service. Staff onboard the train and at the Station will be happy to assist you in finding an alternative unreserved seat.
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stuving
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« Reply #2041 on: October 03, 2019, 11:08:41 am »

Oh dear LNER have caught 5vice10 now they've bought their five car sets into service:

From Twitter: https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1179685594340966400

#LNERUpdate Facilities on the 10.06 #KingsCross to #Newark Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. There are no reservations on this service. Staff onboard the train and at the Station will be happy to assist you in finding an alternative unreserved seat.


Is that 5 vice 10 or, once a train has failed, 5 vice 0? Are you a "half-full" or "half-empty" person?
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #2042 on: October 10, 2019, 07:12:11 am »

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the 'inapropriate use of stock photographs' thread (a picture of a crowded Pacer!!), but the message is serious.......

From Devon Live
Quote
Crowded trains leaving Devon with half the number of carriages needed
It means there have been a whopping 12,000 fewer seats for journeys to and from London


Trains and buses are often overcrowded (Image: Tony Dewhurst)

Dozens of trains to London have left stations in Devon with HALF the number of carriages advertised in recent weeks.

An incredible 36 trains from the region were made up of 'short-formed IET sets' last month - ie shorter versions of the trains advertised - affecting journeys from Paignton, Plymouth, Penzance and Taunton.

It has led to a total shortfall of 12,000 seats to and from London according to Taunton Trains, a website that shares news and information on historic and modern trains.

As opposed to the 10 coaches needed, several trains to London left the region with just five.

GWR has now confirmed this has happened on a number of occasions.

According to Taunton Trains: "Database records for September show that GWR operated 37 five-car sets instead of the booked 10 car IETs (Intercity Express Trains).

"The shortfall means over 12,000 fewer seats have been provided to and from London between the 1st and 30th September 2019."

Taunton Trains added: "Some worrying examples of overcrowding on short formed sets have been noted by Taunton Trains.

"On Sunday 29th September 2019, for example, the 1A85 11:00 Penzance - London Paddington was formed of five coach set No. 802005 which upon departing Plymouth was full and standing was unable to load any more passengers on route.


Taunton Trains shared a list of last month's trains which left Plymouth, Penzance, Paignton and Taunton with less coaches than advertised (Image: Taunton Trains)

"On Monday 30th September the 1A72 05:53 Plymouth - London Paddington (a peak commuter service to London) was formed of single IET No. 802001.

"With less than two months until the biggest timetable change in a generation, this worrying pattern of Hitachi/GWR consistently supplying short formed sets (which have less capacity than the HST sets they replace) should be a cause for concern for the approaching increased passenger service due to start in December."

GWR says there can be occasions when the service has to operate a five car train instead of nine or 10 carriages for a variety of reasons, including damage to a train leading it to require maintenance.

They run 32 services a day Monday to Friday between Plymouth and London Paddington, with over 600 in September, and sometimes deliberately operates five-car trains, for example with five cars between Penzance and Plymouth which then join with five more coaches at Plymouth railway station.

A GWR spokesperson said: We dont like to operate any train with less carriages than we have planned to, but unfortunately there may be occasions when rather than cancelling the train we have run the service with five carriages.

"Customers who had a seat reservation but were unable to sit are entitled to a refund and we would encourage them to get in touch," they added.

From Sunday, December 15, GWR will be launching a new timetable , including three more services a day between Paddington and the South West, running non-stop between Reading and Taunton, the company says.

"GWR expects journey times to improve by as much as 11 minutes between Paddington and Plymouth," the company says.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #2043 on: October 10, 2019, 07:14:43 am »

Looks like 07:20 (approx.) Reading to Waterloo by the time it gets to Twickenham.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2044 on: October 10, 2019, 11:50:49 am »

Progress.
All very voyager like.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #2045 on: October 13, 2019, 12:52:53 pm »

Progress.
All very voyager like.
Nope the blinds on a Voyager reach the bottom of the window.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #2046 on: October 19, 2019, 07:30:21 pm »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?
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« Reply #2047 on: October 20, 2019, 11:03:04 pm »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?

Im struggling to think what youve seen, none of the wheels or brake discs have grilles over them.
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stuving
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« Reply #2048 on: October 20, 2019, 11:18:29 pm »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?

There are two bogie designs, but that doesn't sound like it! Trailer vehicles (1,4,6,9) have bolsterless bogies (like Voyagers) showing the shiny brake disc, while motor vehicles (2,3,5,7,8) have ones enclosed by a frame.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #2049 on: October 21, 2019, 10:33:06 am »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?

There are two bogie designs, but that doesn't sound like it! Trailer vehicles (1,4,6,9) have bolsterless bogies (like Voyagers) showing the shiny brake disc, while motor vehicles (2,3,5,7,8) have ones enclosed by a frame.
That's what I saw but instead of being vehicles 1, 4, 6, 9 it was several consecutive cars. I did wonder if some of the frames/grilles might have been removed in the course of routine maintenance (perhaps to check or replace the brake pads?) and not replaced.
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stuving
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« Reply #2050 on: October 21, 2019, 01:21:42 pm »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?

There are two bogie designs, but that doesn't sound like it! Trailer vehicles (1,4,6,9) have bolsterless bogies (like Voyagers) showing the shiny brake disc, while motor vehicles (2,3,5,7,8) have ones enclosed by a frame.
That's what I saw but instead of being vehicles 1, 4, 6, 9 it was several consecutive cars. I did wonder if some of the frames/grilles might have been removed in the course of routine maintenance (perhaps to check or replace the brake pads?) and not replaced.

If you remove the bogie frames the whole thing falls apart and the train falls on top of you - so no.

But I must correct what I said before, as it's only the intermediate trailers that get the inner-frame bogies (Hitachi's term). So none on a 5-car, and just 4,6 on a 9-car. A significant weight reduction, Hitachi say.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 03:13:53 pm by stuving » Logged
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« Reply #2051 on: October 21, 2019, 01:33:26 pm »

Quote
Oh dear LNER have caught 5vice10 now they've bought their five car sets into service

Was on an LNER 5+5 Kings X to Leeds this morning - no sign of the trolley in my 5 during the 2hr 15min journey.

Now on a 91 on the way back south, trolley came through about 10 mins after departure.

The Azuma is more bright and spacious though :-) Seats hard but bearable.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #2052 on: October 21, 2019, 04:46:40 pm »

Waiting on P1 at Bath today, a 9-car IET drew up on the opposite platform heading for London. I noticed that the first two or three coaches had a metal grill over the wheels and brake discs, but the following six or seven did not. What is the grill for and why would it be only partially present?

There are two bogie designs, but that doesn't sound like it! Trailer vehicles (1,4,6,9) have bolsterless bogies (like Voyagers) showing the shiny brake disc, while motor vehicles (2,3,5,7,8) have ones enclosed by a frame.
That's what I saw but instead of being vehicles 1, 4, 6, 9 it was several consecutive cars. I did wonder if some of the frames/grilles might have been removed in the course of routine maintenance (perhaps to check or replace the brake pads?) and not replaced.

If you remove the bogie frames the whole thing falls apart and the train falls on top of you - so no.

But I must correct what I said before, as it's only the intermediate trailers that get the inner-frame bogies (Hitachi's term). So none on a 5-car, and just 4,6 on a 9-car. A significant weight reduction, Hitachi say.
What I saw looked to me like a metal grill or mesh over the wheels and brake discs, but it might well have been more than that. If there are only two of them on a 9-car, then I reckon that's what I must have seen, and that's actually 4 and 6 rather than 1 and 2 or whatever is explained by the fact that I wasn't looking for them but just noticed that some had them and some didn't. By the time the train was stationary opposite me, its front end was out of sight due to the slight curvature of the platform. I've actually looked (briefly) for some photos of IETs to see what they show but they all seem to be taken from the end not the side.
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stuving
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« Reply #2053 on: October 21, 2019, 05:01:43 pm »

Pictures of the two types of bogie are indeed hard to find! Even the "normal" ones, which it's hard to find side-on pictures of, however, one of Bobm's from 2016 shows most of one:

or there's a clearer view of a mid-train one (which I suspect lack a little of the plumbing) by Peter Moulton at Alamy.

For "naked" ones it's even worse, as they don't occur in 5-car trains (so even Hornby don't need one). The only linkable picture of one I can find is this, by Andrew Cameron on the 47soton.co.uk blog site.

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« Reply #2054 on: October 21, 2019, 10:04:07 pm »

Definitely no grilles fitted to any wheels or bogies.

Was it this you saw?


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