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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 279472 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2190 on: December 13, 2019, 01:39:57 pm »

JC had it down as 5 vice 9 but Tiger showed it being 9 car, so I know who to believe in future  Smiley

Tiger is much more accurate, only really likely to be wrong when a problem has occurred en-route.  JourneyCheck is, at best, a very rough guide.
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« Reply #2191 on: December 15, 2019, 05:27:49 pm »

Tiger is much more accurate, only really likely to be wrong when a problem has occurred en-route.  JourneyCheck is, at best, a very rough guide.

Not an IET but a good example of the hopelessness of JourneyCheck..

Quote
Facilities on the 17:51 Oxford to London Paddington due 18:56. This is due to a fault on this train. Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 2

Which is actually running as booked as a 6-car Turbo along with the other trains on that diagram!   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2192 on: December 19, 2019, 02:05:57 pm »

Interesting comment on the WNXX Forum concerning IET Introduction, from Tony Miles of Modern Railways:

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The general view is that Hitachi focused heavily on building the new trains and not enough on the day to day delivery of sets in fully working state (and the right sets on the right diagrams). Odd as this is the lucrative part of the various contracts.. 30+ years of income... so much so that there is a significant change of senior management at Hitachi UK and a big push.to get things reorganised... both GWR and LNER are politely saying they have confidence in Hitachi (openly) but behind the scenes the three TOCs currently using 80x sets are understood to have reminded Hitachi they want operational trains as promised and not compensation... compensation doesn't carry passengers...

Good to hear, if true, that the TOCs are not simply going to lied down and accept some shortforms and instead rake in lots of compensation.  I'd seem to recollect some cynics predicting that?

It seems to me that GWR HAVE simply lied down, accepted some short forms, and raked in the compensation, for the first two years at least. Sod the passengers, 5 cars is fine, and much better than no train.
This might be changing, but don't count on it.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #2193 on: December 19, 2019, 03:17:33 pm »

Interesting comment on the WNXX Forum concerning IET Introduction, from Tony Miles of Modern Railways:

Quote
The general view is that Hitachi focused heavily on building the new trains and not enough on the day to day delivery of sets in fully working state (and the right sets on the right diagrams). Odd as this is the lucrative part of the various contracts.. 30+ years of income... so much so that there is a significant change of senior management at Hitachi UK and a big push.to get things reorganised... both GWR and LNER are politely saying they have confidence in Hitachi (openly) but behind the scenes the three TOCs currently using 80x sets are understood to have reminded Hitachi they want operational trains as promised and not compensation... compensation doesn't carry passengers...

Good to hear, if true, that the TOCs are not simply going to lied down and accept some shortforms and instead rake in lots of compensation.  I'd seem to recollect some cynics predicting that?

It seems to me that GWR HAVE simply lied down, accepted some short forms, and raked in the compensation, for the first two years at least. Sod the passengers, 5 cars is fine, and much better than no train.
This might be changing, but don't count on it.
That's pure speculation on your part. You've absolutely no idea what sort of conversations have been going on behind the scenes between GWR and Hitachi, which would be very unlikely to be aired in public. But your theory conveniently fits your anti-GWR and anti-IET campaign of course.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2194 on: December 19, 2019, 08:17:05 pm »

My remarks are indeed speculation, but reasonable speculation based on observation of the ongoing short formations, for over two years now.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
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« Reply #2195 on: December 19, 2019, 09:35:06 pm »

My remarks are indeed speculation, but reasonable speculation based on observation of the ongoing short formations, for over two years now.
LNER passengers are now also experiencing short formation IETs.

Personally Iím getting fed up with the comment I keep seeing on forums and Twitter that a five coach train is better than no train. Not when you canít get on it because itís full and standing it isnít and for those on board seated or standing an uncomfortable journey.

Up until the arrival of the IETs we were used to seeing local and Thames Valley services short formed but never Intercity services. Faulty power car or carriage you just swapped them out. That was the flexibility that the HST model gave.

Now I like the IETs and think they are good trains but there are way too many five car sets, there should have been more nine car sets built. Too late now.
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Celestial
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« Reply #2196 on: December 19, 2019, 09:37:58 pm »


LNER passengers are now also experiencing short formation IETs.

Maybe they could hold on to that nice blue and grey train which is currently doing a tour of LNER routes for a bit longer.  It looks ever so smart - I think even broadgage might like it.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2197 on: December 20, 2019, 09:50:09 am »

Broadgage would certainly support the retention of a few HSTs on LNER or GWR or elsewhere, not as a long term measure but for a few years until the IETs are working properly, with no significant short formations.

So doing has been ruled out on GWR and seems unlikely elsewhere. The general view within the rail industry seems to be that IETs are the future and that short formations are acceptable.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
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« Reply #2198 on: December 20, 2019, 02:29:46 pm »

Maybe they could hold on to that nice blue and grey train which is currently doing a tour of LNER routes for a bit longer.  It looks ever so smart - I think even broadgage might like it.
It does look really great. I wonder if itís one of the sets going over to EMR?
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Timmer
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« Reply #2199 on: December 20, 2019, 06:03:34 pm »

18.04 Paddington to Penzance showing as five coaches on Tiger. Any one able to confirm? Not listed on JC but that doesnít mean anything.
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BBM
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« Reply #2200 on: December 20, 2019, 07:31:22 pm »

18.04 Paddington to Penzance showing as five coaches on Tiger. Any one able to confirm? Not listed on JC but that doesnít mean anything.

It was cancelled "due to train crew being delayed by service disruption" according to JC.
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Timmer
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« Reply #2201 on: December 20, 2019, 08:06:58 pm »

It was cancelled "due to train crew being delayed by service disruption" according to JC.
RTT reports it was cancelled Ďdue to a problem with the doorsí.

JC reporting the service will now start at Exeter St Davids and was Ďdue to a fault on the train in front of this oneí.
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Chris125
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« Reply #2202 on: December 23, 2019, 01:20:45 am »

Personally Iím getting fed up with the comment I keep seeing on forums and Twitter that a five coach train is better than no train. Not when you canít get on it because itís full and standing it isnít and for those on board seated or standing an uncomfortable journey.

A 5-car train *is* better than no train, because the alternative is trying to squeeze everyone onto the following service - that sure as hell won't be a comfortable journey either, if they all fit, and now everyone's delayed too.

It's basic logic?
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broadgage
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« Reply #2203 on: December 23, 2019, 04:15:01 am »

Personally Iím getting fed up with the comment I keep seeing on forums and Twitter that a five coach train is better than no train. Not when you canít get on it because itís full and standing it isnít and for those on board seated or standing an uncomfortable journey.

A 5-car train *is* better than no train, because the alternative is trying to squeeze everyone onto the following service - that sure as hell won't be a comfortable journey either, if they all fit, and now everyone's delayed too.

It's basic logic?

We seem to have moved on from "all services that need to be full length, will be" and towards "half length trains are not that bad, really" Progress I know but still regrettable.
All very voyager like.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
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« Reply #2204 on: December 23, 2019, 06:40:32 am »

It's basic logic?
Basic logic would have been to have built enough full length trains to replace the full length trains they were replacing in the first place. But then basic logic does not apply to the railways.
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