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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 313295 times)
rogerw
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« Reply #2430 on: September 16, 2020, 12:43:09 pm »

Nobody should need to take more than one large item on holiday. After all, that is all that the airlines would allow (unless you are prepared to pay them large sums of money) and even them you have to pay anadditional charge in many cases.
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TonyK
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« Reply #2431 on: September 16, 2020, 02:29:52 pm »

Nobody should need to take more than one large item on holiday. After all, that is all that the airlines would allow (unless you are prepared to pay them large sums of money) and even them you have to pay anadditional charge in many cases.

It's a bit tougher these days, with Ryanair looking to charge for cabin luggage bigger than 40 x 20 x 25 cm. For a surfboard, you might be better off chartering a flight. Or, if that doesn't work, hiring a surfboard at the other end.

Baggage is to travel by train and plane what car parking is to driving - always someone ends up hard done by. One of the comedy highlights of my life so far involved watching an extended family checking in for the same flight to Ben Gurion as me, with much debate about whether the electric piano could be treated as three separate things joined together, and whether some of the excess baggage could be disregarded in lieu of one of the party being very thin.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2432 on: September 16, 2020, 02:40:22 pm »

Airlines are indeed very restrictive WRT luggage, however trains should perhaps be better than airlines, rather than seeking to become as bad.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
didcotdean
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« Reply #2433 on: September 16, 2020, 02:41:41 pm »

The large weights that used to be specified until recently for luggage go right back to the start of the railway. For example in 1845 the allowance on GWR was 100 lb First Class, 60lb Second Class and 56lb Third Class (which was still by goods train only). The Victorians were fond of large heavy trunks though. Extra to take your carriage and horses with you.
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TonyK
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« Reply #2434 on: September 17, 2020, 12:05:18 am »

Airlines are indeed very restrictive WRT luggage, however trains should perhaps be better than airlines, rather than seeking to become as bad.

I agree to a point, having moved from Blackpool to Bristol by train in around 1977, carrying a case, a rucksack, a turntable, amp and pair of speakers, and unfortunately joining the train at Birmingham that was carrying the Navy (all of the navy) from Scotland back to Plymouth. But I wouldn't like to share one of the airline seats with someone carrying a surfboard, in all honesty.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 12:01:44 pm by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
Oxonhutch
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« Reply #2435 on: September 17, 2020, 08:38:33 am »

The large weights that used to be specified until recently for luggage go right back to the start of the railway. For example in 1845 the allowance on GWR was 100 lb First Class, 60lb Second Class and 56lb Third Class (which was still by goods train only). The Victorians were fond of large heavy trunks though. Extra to take your carriage and horses with you.

From the Liverpool and Manchester back in 1831: 60 lbs each plus an excess of 3/- per cwt ...
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #2436 on: September 17, 2020, 09:39:48 am »

Nobody should need to take more than one large item on holiday. After all, that is all that the airlines would allow (unless you are prepared to pay them large sums of money) and even them you have to pay anadditional charge in many cases.

Apart from a very few markets (London-Edinburgh being the obvious one), the competition for trains is cars, not planes. Most Cornish holidaymakers arrive via the A30, not Newquay Airport.

So the relevant comparison is with cars, and you can stuff a whole bunch of luggage into - or onto - a car. If the railways want to compete, they need to meet that demand. And although many TOCs have had a rather dismissive attitude to leisure travel in the past, the post-covid dropoff in commuting is surely going to lead to a rethink.

(I was interested to read in Another Place that LNER are removing the windowless seats in their Azumas and installing luggage racks in their place, much along the lines suggested by our very own II. One poster alluded to GWR taking an interest: "I believe LNER, with work shared with fellow IEP operator GWR, is doing the right thing in regards to adding the extra luggage stacks in place of the window-less seats." It's probably too much to hope they might do this and remove the kitchen from the five-car units...)
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GBM
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« Reply #2437 on: September 17, 2020, 10:49:42 am »

It's probably too much to hope they might do this and remove the kitchen from the five-car units...)

Are you doing this provoke someone!  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #2438 on: September 17, 2020, 11:00:48 am »

I'm sure the Pullman aficionados on this board will be fully agreed that Pullman services ought to be formed of full-length (9-car) trains!
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broadgage
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« Reply #2439 on: September 17, 2020, 12:33:35 pm »

I'm sure the Pullman aficionados on this board will be fully agreed that Pullman services ought to be formed of full-length (9-car) trains!

Yes.
Near the beginning of the IET saga, I and others doubted the suitability of a pair of 5 car units Pullman services. Advocates of IETs suggested that full length units would be used for Pullman services and the kitchens in the shorter units were to provide the at seat hot snacks from the new improved trolley. (now sunk without trace)

Then it was discovered that a full length unit wont fit the depot at Penzance and that most services thereto would be 5 car.
Restaurant only available to half the train.
Limited non dining first class seats in the dining portion.
Restaurant customers going west of Plymouth have to alight thereat and walk along the platform to the other portion.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
southwest
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« Reply #2440 on: September 17, 2020, 07:50:32 pm »

I'm sure the Pullman aficionados on this board will be fully agreed that Pullman services ought to be formed of full-length (9-car) trains!

Yes.
Near the beginning of the IET saga, I and others doubted the suitability of a pair of 5 car units Pullman services. Advocates of IETs suggested that full length units would be used for Pullman services and the kitchens in the shorter units were to provide the at seat hot snacks from the new improved trolley. (now sunk without trace)

Then it was discovered that a full length unit wont fit the depot at Penzance and that most services thereto would be 5 car.
Restaurant only available to half the train.
Limited non dining first class seats in the dining portion.
Restaurant customers going west of Plymouth have to alight thereat and walk along the platform to the other portion.

Given that Pullman Dining is over by the time it gets to Exeter, that gives more than enough time to get into the other set. I agree Pullman should be 9 car sets, given the depot was only recently reworked why wasn't 9 cars taken into account.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2441 on: September 18, 2020, 03:32:20 pm »

Meal service is indeed over by about Exeter.
However for passengers going beyond Plymouth, having to change at, or before Plymouth is a powerful disincentive to use of the Pullman.
Likewise in the up direction, having to board the 5 car unit at anywhere west of Plymouth, and then alight and move to the other portion is backward step. Especially when the second unit fails to arrive/function. (as those in the know all pile into what is now the only unit to London, those who had alighted in hope of dining will now have to stand.)

And as for the depot at Penzance only taking 5 cars, a cynic like me would suspect that the intention was to use primarily 5 car units, so no point in a depot that can take a full length train.
It was certainly implied that 9 cars units would be used for Pullman services, but that I suspect was simply a ploy to mollify people like me, and not actually what was intended.
A bit like all the grand promises made about the trolley, none of which were regularly achieved.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Lee
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« Reply #2442 on: September 19, 2020, 10:09:23 am »

The ban on the carriage of surfboards on IETs continues to be a cause of complaint.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54162329

I can remember the good old days, when passengers could take up to 50 kilos of luggage, or 75 kilos in first class.

From that article:
Quote
Surfers are calling on Great Western Railway to review its policy banning surfboards on trains.

It comes after one surfer said police were called when he was told to leave a train travelling from London to Bristol because he had a board with him.

Jamie Monson said the policy was 'crazy', especially when rail travel is being encouraged.

GWR changed its policy early last year stating surfboards were not be allowed on its intercity express trains.
The company said the new trains no longer had space behind the engine, where boards had previously been stored, to enable them to provide extra seating.

Mr Monson was bound for surfing lake The Wave, a 180m long lake, which opened in Bristol in November, before the coronavirus lockdown saw it shut for more than four months.

So let me get this right ... he was travelling to a surfing venue that was being heavily advertised on the turbos in the Bristol area shortly before lockdown and was asked to leave the train because he was taking surfing equipment on it?   Does that strike you as ironic?

For those of you unfamiliar with "The Wave" - although the article says it's "in Bristol", the nearest (and only realistically walkable) station is Pilning - about a mile away as the seagull flies.  The Wave's website says (at https://www.thewave.com/about/ )
Quote
Explore how The Wave is putting community and sustainability at the heart of its operation.
but I'm not seeing anything there about reaching them sustainably. Perhaps something in the offing, perhaps it could be useful to see if a few ideas could be joined up.



A while ago, and some time before all the coronavirus upheaval began, I came up with a proposal for the Cardiff-Taunton service to call hourly at the operational eastbound platform at Pilning station during daylight hours between 0834-1534, along with a rail link bus service that would link both Pilning and Filton Abbey Wood stations to Pilning village, Westgate, The Wave and Cribbs Causeway. This was in response to the Cribbs management informing FOSBR that they would consider funding such a rail link bus service if more trains called at Pilning station. I have attached the proposal to the bottom of this post.

Although I still fully believe that the proposed station at Pilning Westgate remains the better medium to long-term bet, it does show that even with the sub-minimal facilities available at the current Pilning station, improved train services could be possible through an integrated transport solution that could greatly benefit the wider catchment area, and could in turn help to strengthen the case for the future appropriate service levels and infrastructure we would want to see for Pilning and that wider catchment area.
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southwest
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« Reply #2443 on: September 19, 2020, 07:29:33 pm »

The ban on the carriage of surfboards on IETs continues to be a cause of complaint.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54162329

Surely this could easily be achieved by making the kitchens slightly smaller so space can be made for a small guards van next to the access door which is not open to the public?
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broadgage
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« Reply #2444 on: September 19, 2020, 08:16:47 pm »

The ban on the carriage of surfboards on IETs continues to be a cause of complaint.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54162329

Surely this could easily be achieved by making the kitchens slightly smaller so space can be made for a small guards van next to the access door which is not open to the public?

Not really, the full kitchen space is needed for Pullman service.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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