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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 441378 times)
grahame
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« Reply #2505 on: January 06, 2022, 03:29:18 pm »

Yes the reservation system should really be sorted out to cope as best as can be with 5 vice 9/10, but with around 50% of the normal passenger loading currently I doubt short forms (of any of GWR (Great Western Railway)’s traction types) are causing too many issues.

I suspect the only issues at present are psychological ones - the people for whom travelling is perhaps a rarity and they plan ahead and really want the assurance of a guaranteed seat, knowing they will find it marked up for them.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2506 on: January 10, 2022, 05:49:56 am »

57 short formations reported today.
Of which I believe 44 are half length IETs (Intercity Express Train).

04:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 06:26
05:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:55
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington due 08:22
05:23 London Paddington to Swansea due 08:58
05:47 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 07:29
05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:59
06:05 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 06:34
06:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 08:29
06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 08:08
06:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 09:33
06:52 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:08
07:12 Plymouth to Penzance due 09:19
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington due 10:34
08:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:35
08:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:05
09:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:39
09:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:12
09:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:06
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:49
10:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:36
10:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:29
10:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 13:12
10:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:08
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:38
11:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:17
11:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:06
12:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:39
12:31 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:05
12:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:32
13:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:35
13:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:08
13:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
13:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:30
13:53 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:41
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:36
14:10 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:11
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:07
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:39
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:08
16:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:35
16:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:20
16:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:25
16:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:14
16:33 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:10
16:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:11
17:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:40
17:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:14
17:32 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:14
17:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:26
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:08
19:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:35
20:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:09
20:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 23:47
22:00 Hereford to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:45
22:38 Plymouth to Penzance due 00:35

A very poor performance, and this with the reduced "covid mode" timetable, that should leave some spare stock.




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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #2507 on: January 10, 2022, 06:08:20 am »

57 short formations reported today.
Of which I believe 44 are half length IETs (Intercity Express Train).

[snip]

A very poor performance, and this with the reduced "covid mode" timetable, that should leave some spare stock.


At the risk of being branded a heretic, can I ask how many of those are likely to be "overcrowded" as a result?   A cold, wet mid-January Monday with a "work from home if you possibly can" directive in place does not strike me as a "full and standing" type of day ... shorter services may be sensible in terms of fuel to be burned, operating costs (wear and tear) etc.

But we need to have one eye on compound service reductions.  From December 2019:
* Initial Covid changes, some remain in place, added to which
* December 2021 service reductions, added to which
* Temporary timetable reductions starting today, added to which
* Rather a lot of short formations.

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #2508 on: January 10, 2022, 06:51:43 am »

57 short formations reported today.
Of which I believe 44 are half length IETs (Intercity Express Train).

[snip]

A very poor performance, and this with the reduced "covid mode" timetable, that should leave some spare stock.


At the risk of being branded a heretic, can I ask how many of those are likely to be "overcrowded" as a result?   A cold, wet mid-January Monday with a "work from home if you possibly can" directive in place does not strike me as a "full and standing" type of day ... shorter services may be sensible in terms of fuel to be burned, operating costs (wear and tear) etc.

But we need to have one eye on compound service reductions.  From December 2019:
* Initial Covid changes, some remain in place, added to which
* December 2021 service reductions, added to which
* Temporary timetable reductions starting today, added to which
* Rather a lot of short formations.



Largely agree, although some of those look like "rush hour" arrivals in London to me, so yes, notwithstanding the new world of WFH (Working From Home) etc, 5 cars instead of 10 mean that social distancing will be next to impossible on them.

Good to see however that now we're out of the Christmas period staff shortages no longer seem to be an issue.
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« Reply #2509 on: January 11, 2022, 01:36:32 am »

57 short formations reported today.
Of which I believe 44 are half length IETs (Intercity Express Train).

[snip]

A very poor performance, and this with the reduced "covid mode" timetable, that should leave some spare stock.


At the risk of being branded a heretic, can I ask how many of those are likely to be "overcrowded" as a result?   A cold, wet mid-January Monday with a "work from home if you possibly can" directive in place does not strike me as a "full and standing" type of day ... shorter services may be sensible in terms of fuel to be burned, operating costs (wear and tear) etc.

But we need to have one eye on compound service reductions.  From December 2019:
* Initial Covid changes, some remain in place, added to which
* December 2021 service reductions, added to which
* Temporary timetable reductions starting today, added to which
* Rather a lot of short formations.



Largely agree, although some of those look like "rush hour" arrivals in London to me, so yes, notwithstanding the new world of WFH (Working From Home) etc, 5 cars instead of 10 mean that social distancing will be next to impossible on them.

Good to see however that now we're out of the Christmas period staff shortages no longer seem to be an issue.

My last trip back into London from the Cotswolds was on a 5 car train one Sunday afternoon. By the time we got to London the train was bursting even in 1st. One of the other passengers was complaining at the ticket gate that the train was too full. She said it wasn’t possible to socially distance and they should run a longer train.

This isn’t a short form it’s normally a 5 car now, but it used to be an HST (High Speed Train). Bloke on the gate line told her to write and complain as he couldn’t do anything.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 01:44:58 am by 1st fan » Logged
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« Reply #2510 on: January 11, 2022, 11:18:28 am »

Good to see however that now we're out of the Christmas period staff shortages no longer seem to be an issue.

Ermmm...other than the long list (80+) of daily 'planned' cancellations across the GWR (Great Western Railway) network, plus several short runs?

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/timetables/2022/changes-to-train-times-8-to-14-january-2022-v2.pdf?la=en

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« Reply #2511 on: January 11, 2022, 05:22:15 pm »

If they cant run full length IETs (Intercity Express Train) even under the present much reduced timetable, then how is a return to a full timetable ever to be achieved ? Or even a "reduced but a bit better than at present" timetable.

How many IETs are at present stopped due to cracks ?
How many are stopped due to other significant faults or failures ?
Does anyone have actual figures ? Not PR (Public Relations) platitudes about "everyone working very hard" but actual numbers.

Are there any plans to fix the cracked units. Or replace them.

 

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #2512 on: January 11, 2022, 06:27:47 pm »

Dunno mate. 

I don’t think the crack situation is any worse, but the inspection procedure is very staff intensive…and guess what the major shortage is at the moment (I say so whilst isolating myself).

Or it could be that they don’t currently need the capacity, so they’re getting on with replacing the carpets etc…

Perhaps try asking over on railforums?  Clarence Yard knows more than most…
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broadgage
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« Reply #2513 on: January 11, 2022, 06:36:40 pm »

No longer a member of railforums, and no I was not banned ! Changed email address, lost password and never got around to re-registering.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2514 on: January 11, 2022, 10:27:04 pm »

...never got around to re-registering.

Hardly too much bother, surely?  Broadgage2 (Return of the Pullman steak) is an available nickname.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #2515 on: January 12, 2022, 09:53:11 am »

If they cant run full length IETs (Intercity Express Train) even under the present much reduced timetable, then how is a return to a full timetable ever to be achieved ? Or even a "reduced but a bit better than at present" timetable.

How many IETs are at present stopped due to cracks ?
How many are stopped due to other significant faults or failures ?
Does anyone have actual figures ? Not PR (Public Relations) platitudes about "everyone working very hard" but actual numbers.

Are there any plans to fix the cracked units. Or replace them.

Another possible reason for shortforms is that more staff are needed on a 10 car train compared to a 5 and their is a current staff shortage due to Omicron.
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« Reply #2516 on: January 12, 2022, 10:17:19 am »

Indeed that's possible, especially for any additional moves to/from the depot as a result. 

I don't think it's because of any worsening in the cracks situation, for which availability has stabilised and if anything improved over the months.  It should be remembered that more IET (Intercity Express Train) operated services resumed from the December timetable change, and whilst some of those have temporarily been removed again I wouldn't be surprised if the daily requirement now is similar to what it was before the December TT change.

Whatever the reasons, there will be good days and bad whilst the crack inspection regime is taking place.  You can certainly argue that Hitachi/GWR (Great Western Railway) were very fortunate this fleet problem arose during the pandemic - even if capacity problems were still an issue on certain trains over the summer.
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« Reply #2517 on: January 15, 2022, 10:48:04 am »

5-car GWR (Great Western Railway) Class 800s and Class 802s can now work in multiple with each other - previously it had to be 2x800 or 2x802 to form a 10-car service.  Might make things slightly easier to organise in terms of availability. 

I don't think there was any particularity compelling reason why it couldn't be done before, other than Hitachi being over protective of their 800s.  A couple of minor issues still exist when it happens, but nothing to mean it can't.
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« Reply #2518 on: January 17, 2022, 05:40:14 am »

44 short formations this morning:
 
05:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:55
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington due 08:22
05:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 06:59
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29
06:12 Frome to London Paddington due 08:01
06:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 08:29
07:20 Swansea to London Paddington due 10:12
07:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:10
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington due 10:34
08:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:12
09:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:39
09:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:06
10:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:35
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
10:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 13:33
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:38
11:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:17
11:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:09
11:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 14:30
12:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:39
12:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:08
13:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:35
13:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:08
13:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
13:53 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:41
14:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:36
14:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 17:14
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:39
15:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:09
15:32 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 17:42
16:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:38
16:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:25
16:36 London Paddington to Totnes due 19:43
17:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:26
17:48 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:52
17:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 19:46
18:18 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:20
18:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 20:36
18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:35 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 22:36
20:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:09
21:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:39
22:00 Hereford to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:45

All half length IETs (Intercity Express Train).

No complete cancellations and only two part cancellations.

Edit to correct link - grahame
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 06:44:51 am by grahame » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #2519 on: January 31, 2022, 11:17:10 am »

Never mind short formations but according to Real Time Trains the 1Z39 20:17 Totnes to Paddington service tonight will be made up of 14 carriages from Bristol Temple Meads.

RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) states that it will be 5-car 802013 + 9-car 802113. The 9-car unit starts from Totnes and the 5-car unit joins at Bristol Temple Meads.

Is this possible or is this a data error?

Unfortunately I won't be around to check.

 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V11643/2022-01-31/detailed#allox_id=1
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