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December 18, 2017, 10:32:48 PM *
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Author Topic: New Train  (Read 3487 times)
stuving
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« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2017, 10:23:33 AM »

Any sign of displays showing loading levels? The IEP requirement said they must count passengers:
Quote
4.16 Passenger Counting System
TS299 Each IEP Vehicle must be installed with a system that automatically records the number of passengers boarding and alighting the IEP Train at each station. The system must record the individual journey, time and date for which this information applies. The system must provide data which shows for each IEP Vehicle:
• the number of passengers aboard the IEP Train on approach to each station;
• the number of passengers which alight the IEP Train at each station;
• the number of passengers which board the IEP Train at each station; and
• the number of passengers aboard the IEP Train on departure from each station.
TS1993 The passenger counting systems must, in addition to the requirements of TS299, automatically record the number of people moving between IEP Vehicles to facilitate the calculation of the number of passengers per IEP Vehicle.
TS1857 The system must be able to record the passenger numbers to within 5% or one person (whichever is the greater) of the actual number of people on board the IEP Train between each station stop.
TS1859 Recorded data for the entire IEP Train must be downloadable via the TMS
TS1860 All passenger count data must be accessible remotely and in real time from a control centre and operating depot.

And also that loadings should be displayed inside the trains:
Quote
TS1931 The PIS must utilise the data from the passenger counting system to indicate to passengers within the IEP Train the status of the occupancy of each IEP Vehicle.
I can't see anything about the outside of the train, and of course platform displays are up to GWR and NR to provide.
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broadgage
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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2017, 10:51:50 AM »

Regarding rail vehicles being blown over by extreme winds, IIRC a tram on a coastal route was once blown of the track.
Although trams are usually lighter in weight than proper railway coaches, traditional designs were much less in overall height than rail coaches.
I think that some trams used in coastal resorts were equipped with water tanks as ballast weights, these being filled when extreme weather was expected, but being normally empty so as avoid energy waste in hauling weight that normally was not needed.

Modern railway vehicles are generally required to be safe from overturning up to a certain maximum wind speed, specified in miles per hour or metric equivalent. I presume that such a wind speed is in the IET specification.

Note that resistance to overturning is normally specified by wind speed, whereas resistance to pressure pulses from entering tunnels or passing other trains is normally specified in units of pressure.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2017, 10:54:00 AM »

As an aside, "the number of passengers which alight" sounds a little awkward to me as opposed to "the number of passengers who alight". If they used it with a singular verb, "the number of passengers which alights" it sound very awkward but at least be defensible grammatically.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
stuving
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2017, 11:03:07 AM »

As an aside, "the number of passengers which alight" sounds a little awkward to me as opposed to "the number of passengers who alight". If they used it with a singular verb, "the number of passengers which alights" it sound very awkward but at least be defensible grammatically.

Nonsense - at least if grammar must serve to convey the intended meaning. Was it a number that got off?  No, it was the passengers who got off.

 
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Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2017, 04:11:04 PM »

Regarding rail vehicles being blown over by extreme winds, IIRC a tram on a coastal route was once blown of the track.
Although trams are usually lighter in weight than proper railway coaches, traditional designs were much less in overall height than rail coaches.
I think that some trams used in coastal resorts were equipped with water tanks as ballast weights, these being filled when extreme weather was expected, but being normally empty so as avoid energy waste in hauling weight that normally was not needed.

I am not aware of that happening in my former home town of Blackpool, where the wind from the Irish Sea can be fearsome. The double-deck "Balloon" trams were left indoors in winter, just in case.
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Now, please!
grahame
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« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2017, 04:23:49 PM »

Regarding rail vehicles being blown over by extreme winds, IIRC a tram on a coastal route was once blown of the track.

http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/the-tale-of-the-lough-swilly-railway-that-halted-back-in-1953-1-2095325

Quote
Disaster occurred on the night of January 30, 1925 at the Owencarrow Viaduct in County Donegal. Winds of up to 120 mph derailed carriages of the train off the viaduct causing it to partially collapse. The roof of a carriage was torn off causing four people to be thrown to their deaths. The four killed were, Phillip Boyle and his wife Sarah, Una Milligan and Neil Duggan. Five people were seriously injured. The remains of the viaduct can be seen today from the road which carries on from the Barnes Gap on the road to Cresslough.
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grahame
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« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2017, 04:40:38 PM »

Regarding rail vehicles being blown over by extreme winds, IIRC a tram on a coastal route was once blown of the track.

http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/the-tale-of-the-lough-swilly-railway-that-halted-back-in-1953-1-2095325

Quote
Disaster occurred on the night of January 30, 1925 at the Owencarrow Viaduct in County Donegal. Winds of up to 120 mph derailed carriages of the train off the viaduct causing it to partially collapse. The roof of a carriage was torn off causing four people to be thrown to their deaths. The four killed were, Phillip Boyle and his wife Sarah, Una Milligan and Neil Duggan. Five people were seriously injured. The remains of the viaduct can be seen today from the road which carries on from the Barnes Gap on the road to Cresslough.

And Also ... 9th October 1880 - http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60095852

Quote
TERRIBLE RAILWAY ACCIDENT AT WELLINGTON, N.Z.
The New Zealand papers contain particulars
of a terrible accident which occurred on the
Wellington and Rimutaka railway on 11th
September. The train was ascending the in-
cline of 1 in 15, proceeding at the usual slow
speed of about five milcs an hour, when, on
emerging from a deep rocky cutting, and on
entering an open embankment, a furious gust
of wind from the right hand struck the leading
carriage broadside on with terrific force, in-
stantly hurling it off the rails on to its left
side, taking with it the second carriage and
the brake van. The combined effect of the
wind force, and the violent concussion against
the boulders at the side of the line, was to
start the upper portion of the first carriage
from the frame and flooring, and the breach
once made, the whole body of the vehicle was
dashed to pieces with extraordinary rapidity,
the débris, together with the passsengers, being
whirled down the steep declivity. The carrier,
frame and wheels of the dismantled carriage
were also thrown over the side of the embank-
ment and dragged down, also the second car-
riage and the brake van — these hanging down
the bank at right angles to tho engine. Happily
the couplings all held firm, and the Fell engine
remained anchored, as it were, to the high
middle rail, with the four horizontal steel,
wheels gripped as if in a vyce under the
prcssure of the powerful engine brake.
Immediately the Fell brake van was
taken off, the two goods waggons being
held only at one end by the engine, they
too were thrown off the rails, and partly over
the side of the bank by the irresistible fury of
the wind, thus leaving the engine alone on the
rails. The scene at the foot of the pre-
cipice is described by one of the passen-
gers as most shocking. The killed and
wounded lay scattered around in all directions,
covered with blood and dirt, and mixed up
with the wreckage of the carriages. Most
of the passengers were stunned for a time, but
on recovering consciousness those who were
less severely injured did their best to assist
the greater sufferers. A girl and two boys
were killed and several other passengers seri-
ously injured. The second carriage, although
blown off the line, was not smashed, but left
hanging end downwards, all the passengers
being found in a confused masss against the
end doors, which were closed. One boy was
crushed to death through falling underneath
the mass of people. The inmates of the car-
riage at length, to extricate themselves, had to
scramble up the bank with the help of a rope
thrown to them from the engine.
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stuving
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« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2017, 06:33:19 PM »

Modern railway vehicles are generally required to be safe from overturning up to a certain maximum wind speed, specified in miles per hour or metric equivalent. I presume that such a wind speed is in the IET specification.

Note that resistance to overturning is normally specified by wind speed, whereas resistance to pressure pulses from entering tunnels or passing other trains is normally specified in units of pressure.

The excerpted text cited GM/RT2142, which does give a wind speed. It also says a lot more about how to apply it, depending on the train's own speed, following an approach that I find rather odd. However, that initial fixed wind speed is the oddly precise 40.8 m/s (147 km/hr or 91 mi/hr).
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lbraine
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« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2017, 09:49:45 PM »

Any sign of displays showing loading levels? The IEP requirement said they must count passengers:
Quote
4.16 Passenger Counting System
TS299 Each IEP Vehicle must be installed with a system that automatically records the number of passengers boarding and alighting the IEP Train at each station. The system must record the individual journey, time and date for which this information applies. The
TS1857 The system must be able to record the passenger numbers to within 5% or one Vehicle.
I can't see anything about the outside of the train, and of course platform displays are up to GWR and NR to provide.

As you exit the IEP door there is - about knee height - a black and yellow cased sensor, presumably whose inner workings are disrupted by a passenger passing by why embarking/disembarking.
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1st fan
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« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2017, 11:32:54 AM »

Any sign of displays showing loading levels? The IEP requirement said they must count passengers:
Quote
4.16 Passenger Counting System
TS299 Each IEP Vehicle must be installed with a system that automatically records the number of passengers boarding and alighting the IEP Train at each station. The system must record the individual journey, time and date for which this information applies. The
TS1857 The system must be able to record the passenger numbers to within 5% or one Vehicle.
I can't see anything about the outside of the train, and of course platform displays are up to GWR and NR to provide.

As you exit the IEP door there is - about knee height - a black and yellow cased sensor, presumably whose inner workings are disrupted by a passenger passing by why embarking/disembarking.

Any idea how this info will be displayed to the great unwashed travelling public so that they know which section of the train is less crowded. Also and I'm sort of with Stuving on this wouldn't it have made sense to have made it a requirement to show this info on the exterior of the train. Can't really see the point of just showing the data inside the train.

Quote
TS1931 The PIS must utilise the data from the passenger counting system to indicate to passengers within the IEP Train the status of the occupancy of each IEP Vehicle.
I've rarely seen people move carriages but I have seen them running along the platform looking for a carriage with space in. 
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