Actual journey times much increased by complexity of fares.

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Under the present fares system, the only affordable fares for many journeys are those booked in advance and restricted to a particular train.
If this train is missed (other than by the fault of the railway) then a very substantial "fine" is payable to use an alternative service. To avoid this, it is generally advised that ample time be allowed for delays en route to the station.
This does, IN EFFECT extend journey times by an hour or more.
This considerable extension to the total journey time is a very considerable backward step if compared to the good old days, not only are many services a little slower according to the timetable, but the actual "door to door" time is now often an hour or two longer for ticketing reasons.

Take as an example.
If I wish to travel from Taunton to London on the 13-34 departure, originating in Dunster. Back in the day, I would have got the 12-18 bus from Dunster, arriving Taunton 13-24 and allowing ten minutes for the short walk from bus stop to platform.
Had I missed the train due to bus problems, waiting for the next fast train at 14-24 was no big deal.

These days however I would probably hold a "booked train only" ticket which would be worthless if the train was missed, I would in effect be "fined" about £180 for the bus delays.
To avoid this, it would be sensible to allow for one bus being cancelled and the next one being delayed. I could perhaps therefore take the 11-18 bus from Dunster, which if on time means wasting an hour at Taunton.
A bus delay of more than an hour is possible and to mitigate against that would require leaving even earlier.

So what should be a 3 hour journey is now at least 4 hours, maybe  longer. Isn't progress wonderful !

In the case of my Sister who lives in south west London, the position is still worse if travelling to Taunton. Getting to Paddington involves a bus, south west trains, and London underground. Allowing a generous margin for delays means that what should be a 4 hour journey actually takes 6 hours, one third of which is wasted but must be allowed to avoid huge expense in case of a delay.

This sort of thing makes discussion as to whether or not the new trains will be a few minutes faster, or not, than the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) seem rather academic.

[IndustryInsider]

The 'fine' has now been reduced significantly recently hasn't it, as with a small admin fee you can just pay the difference between the advance ticket and the next cheapest flexible ticket?  Prior to that recent change the advance ticket was worthless.

[JayMac]

This does, IN EFFECT extend journey times by an hour or more.
This considerable extension to the total journey time is a very considerable backward step

Sweeping generalisation.

Many, many folk have a journey time to their local station that isn't affected by anything other than the speed their legs can take them.

And your example from Dunster is way off the mark. If you miss your booked train, the additional cost (it's not a fine, not even in inverted commas) will be a Super Off Single at £44.20.

As for your Sister in South West London, she can buy an Advance Purchase fare from the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) station nearest her, for travel via Paddington (including cross London transfer by Underground) to Taunton. Any delay at any stage of that journey (including the Underground) is covered by the T&Cs of the ticket and later trains can be taken. The bus at the start of the journey isn't covered for delays, but I can't believe the frequency of bus services where your Sister is is as bad as Dunster. So buy the AP from the nearest station, then exposure to delays is mitigated.

If you want absolute cover for every possible transport eventuality outside the control of National Rail, before you even get to a station, then buy the appropriate walk-up fare when you get to the station.

Otherwise there's Advance Purchase. A cheaper, more restrictive product.  One that requires a little more care and planning on the part of the purchaser to ensure they can make their booked train. I'd certainly think twice about buying AP if my journey started with over an hour on a bus.

[grahame]

The 'fine' has now been reduced significantly recently hasn't it, as with a small admin fee you can just pay the difference between the advance ticket and the next cheapest flexible ticket?  Prior to that recent change the advance ticket was worthless.

Interesting. Is that the case after the booked train has departed?

[LiskeardRich]

Sweeping generalisation.

Many, many folk have a journey time to their local station that isn't affected by anything other than the speed their legs can take them.

I was going to post this. I live a 5-10 minute walk. saying that i'd probably allow myself 20 minutes in case I see anyone to have a chat with.

[John R]

If I'm in London and returning on an advance ticket then I will typically leave at least an extra 20 minutes to get from the City to Paddington than if I am on a flexible ticket, just in case of delays. So in that sense, yes my journey time has been extended. As my rail ticket only covers me as far as Paddington, I've always presumed I couldn't use a delay on the tube as a valid excuse.

Those TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) that offer single fares only £1 cheaper than the return (eg Cross Country) make missing your booked train much more costly relatively speaking. In that sense GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is not too bad.

[JayMac]

If I'm in London and returning on an advance ticket then I will typically leave at least an extra 20 minutes to get from the City to Paddington than if I am on a flexible ticket, just in case of delays. So in that sense, yes my journey time has been extended. As my rail ticket only covers me as far as Paddington, I've always presumed I couldn't use a delay on the tube as a valid excuse.

You can use delay on the tube as a valid excuse if you buy an Advance Purchase ticket to a National Rail (not a terminus) station in London. If you're headed for the square mile then you could buy an AP from Nailsea & Backwell to Stratford International, then walk out of London Liverpool Street. The AP fare to Stratford is only typically £1-2 more than to Paddington.

A bit cheeky, but zero chance of any comeback from TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).

[grahame]

I am always VERY wary of advance tickets ... been caught out a couple of times, most recently on my return from Scotland earlier this month.    Really good price on train from Glasgow very early on 12th, but then had to get home overnight on 11th for a funeral I heard about late.  Even that's not a valid reason to get anything back or to be allowed a transfer onto the sleeper.

[Bmblbzzz]

I don't think you can say that advance fares increase effective journey times. What they do though is reduce effective frequency.

[TonyK]

I don't think you can say that advance fares increase effective journey times.

I can. I am heading to Blackpool tomorrow, possibly the last of many such journeys by rail. I will begin with a 10-minute bus ride to Stapleton Road, thence to Temple Meads, to get the 0830 Plymouth to Glasgow Central. I could go the other way and change at Parkway, but don't have a reserved seat, and reckon I will stand more chance of sitting this way.

Change at Cheltenham Spa, with time for a coffee before the 10.01 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Cardiff to Nottingham, which I leave at Birmingham New Street, before getting the 11.15 to Preston, then the next Blackpool North train, arriving around 13.25. That gives me a total rail journey time of around 50 minutes longer than the fastest route, but by doing it all with Advance Purchase tickets I pay under £25. I am in no rush, so don't mind.

The return this time involves a prolonged stop in Birmingham, during which I shall dine.

It went wrong on me only once, which meant I was on a later train from BHM to CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains) than I should have been because of a failed train en route. The TM^‡(resolve) merely shrugged his shoulders and said "It happens" or words to that effect, even though I did not have a through ticket.

My point is that I have the flexibility to choose to travel this way, so can take advantage of significant savings in cash, at the expense of time. Not everybody can.

[Bmblbzzz]

Well, yes. But that's a somewhat different point to the one that started the thread.

[Richard Fairhurst]

If you want absolute cover for every possible transport eventuality outside the control of National Rail, before you even get to a station, then buy the appropriate walk-up fare when you get to the station.

Otherwise there's Advance Purchase. A cheaper, more restrictive product.

The problem is that it's not an either/or. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have deliberately chosen to replace affordable, flexible, walk-up tickets with restrictive Advance tickets. That's what happened here on the Cotswold Line: new, draconian peak restrictions were introduced for flexible tickets, and Advances introduced as a sweetener.

Advances don't generally suit my circumstances, so since these fare changes, I simply travel less frequently to Paddington using GWR. On the occasions that I do, I either split my ticket to get round the off-peak restrictions, or go to Marylebone instead (thank you, Chiltern, for retaining sane fares). Oxford Parkway is becoming surprisingly popular for passengers from the Charlbury area, more than I originally expected, and GWR have only themselves to blame.

[Tim]

I am not against cheap advanced restricted tickets and more expensive more flexible ones, but the difference in price between  them ought not to get out of hand,  It always bothered me that vast quantities of tax payer money was used to increase the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) Manchester to London frequencies to every 20 minutes, but that the key benefit of that - the turn up and go convenience- is very substantially undermined by a ticketing policy which has very cheap advanced fares and expensive flexible fares for the same train. 

[grahame]

A bit cheeky, but zero chance of any comeback from TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).

Also against the rules, isn''t it?   I didn't think advanced fares allowed for shorter journeys, though there's nothing against longer journeys by using them as part(s) of a split.

[JayMac]

A bit cheeky, but zero chance of any comeback from TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).

Also against the rules, isn''t it?   I didn't think advanced fares allowed for shorter journeys, though there's nothing against longer journeys by using them as part(s) of a split.

Updated guidance to rail staff is to not punish those ending short on Advance Purchase, unless there is clear unequivocal proof of an attempt to deprive a TOC of revenue.

Paying extra for a fare to Stratford but leaving the network at London Liverpool Street is hard to justify as fare evasion.