Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 05:35 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
07:00 Bedwyn to Newbury
07:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:12 Reading to Bedwyn
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 Bedwyn to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 05:45:45 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[87] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[81] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[72] Return of the BRUTE?
[61] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[49] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[44] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: No seat reservations - What's the ettiquette, please?  (Read 3915 times)
Rostock0
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 26


View Profile Email
« on: November 13, 2017, 16:37:48 »

Morning, everyone. I had a reserved seat booked on a train this morning. The platform indicator board had the message that there were no seat reservations on this train, and sure enough when we boarded the little pieces of paper indicating reserved seats hadn't been put in the seat headrests. The train was pretty empty, so no problem, I just sat where I liked - but let's suppose it had been full. Am I within my rights to go along to the seat that my ticket says I have reserved, and chuck out anyone who happens to be sitting there, do you think?

Thanks very much,

Rostock0
Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 16:55:24 »

Under Railway Bylaw 19 only the holder of the valid ticket can sit in a seat with a reservation notice for a specified ticket holder (with the exception of permission from an authorised person).

If there is no notice, then the seat shouldn't be considered as reserved.

There often are announcements particularly at the starting point of such services for people to sit in their reserved seats but that doesn't help as it fills up with other people.

What is a bit more difficult is when an electronic display isn't working but then comes back to life. Then there is a notice even if there wasn't originally ...





Logged
Tim
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2738


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 16:57:50 »

I think an announcement that there are no seat reservations means just that. 
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 17:10:08 »

Am I within my rights to go along to the seat that my ticket says I have reserved, and chuck out anyone who happens to be sitting there, do you think?

No, I don't think you're within your rights to chuck them out; all reservations on the service are null and void.

There is nothing to stop you asking them (politely, I'm sure) to vacate the seat for which you have the reservation ticket, but no obligation on them to do so.   

I would suggest such a request would be perfectly reasonable if the train in the immediate vicinity was full and you would otherwise have to stand, and in addition if you have serious issues that mean being seated is a priority.   Even then, I might suggest approaching someone seated in a marked "priority seat" rather than a poor unfortunate who sat down in a random general seat ....
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 17:13:23 »

I think an announcement that there are no seat reservations means just that. 

Usually, that is where something has gone wrong, such as half of a 2x5 car Voyager failing. It's every man for himself in such cases, and forget the women and children. In such cases, you would not be able to throw whoever is in your seat out, unless you are bigger than them, or look otherwise dangerous. Their reserved seat may be stuck a long way away, as happened to my Mum once. (We got her in First Class, gratis, because of her age.)

Etiquette isn't often seen on trains these days.
Logged

Now, please!
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 17:35:03 »

Etiquette isn't often seen on trains these days.
It isn’t often seen everywhere else as well sadly.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 18:06:17 »

I think an announcement that there are no seat reservations means just that. 
I think you can definitely get all of your reservation fee back though...   Grin

Paul
Logged
rogerw
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1336



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 18:06:44 »

One interesting point is that advance tickets come with a condition that you must sit in the specified seat, although in my experience this is rarely enforced.
Logged

I like to travel.  It lets me feel I'm getting somewhere.
Rostock0
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 26


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 18:14:05 »

I got on a midlands train from Birmingham airport to Manchester once. The train was already full when it arrived, and obviously the platform was full of people with massive suitcases. I had a reservation, so I bravely fought through the crowd, enduring the punches with the happy thought that there was a seat waiting for me. I finally got to seat 56.....only to find a 90 year old frail great-great grandma sitting there. Even I didn't have the heart to demand my reservation from her.

But, although it was a miserable journey, it did only cost me £8 to travel from one big city to another.
Logged
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1204


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 19:01:21 »

But, although it was a miserable journey, it did only cost me £8 to travel from one big city to another.

Which is worth taking into consideration - the walk-up standard class fare for that route is between £40.60 and £48.60, so I at least wouldn't feel confident in trying to turf someone out if I'd only paid £8 for my ticket and they might have paid full price.
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 19:25:34 »

Which is worth taking into consideration - the walk-up standard class fare for that route is between £40.60 and £48.60, so I at least wouldn't feel confident in trying to turf someone out if I'd only paid £8 for my ticket and they might have paid full price.

I've done it. During one of my split ticket sojourns to Blackpool, I found a rather objectionable young man of seemingly Russian extraction sitting in the seat that had been ordained to be mine. That was on the Cheltenham to New Street leg, where Cross Country had practically paid for the privilege of carrying me. He didn't want to move at first, but did so eventually when I threatened to get the train manager (I may have inadvertently mis-translated that as "Spetsnaz") albeit without so much as a "Spasiba".

On an earlier trip, I turfed a young lady out of my seat. She produced a ticket to prove it was hers - she had the right seat number, but the wrong carriage. She was mortified because she had kicked an elderly gentlemen out at Gloucester, but she went, presumably to kick him out again. Unfortunately, her gorgeous young friend, who occupied the seat opposite mine, went with her.
Logged

Now, please!
Bob_Blakey
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 783


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 08:12:49 »

Section 3.3 of the current National Rail Conditions of Travel says:
'Unless you have made a reservation please note that your Ticket does not automatically entitle you to a seat, and...'

My interpretation of this is that I should be able to occupy my reserved seat unless exceptional circumstances intervene. I do not regard lack of paper 'seat-back' reservation cards or a failure of any digital reservation system as an exceptional circumstance given that I have in my hand a ticket which carries the details of my reservation. If a polite 'excuse me, I have a reservation for this seat' fails to elicit the desired response - this has only happened to me once - it is Train Manager time.

Only if the Train Manager has verbally declared a suspension of reservations via the PA (Public Address) system would I take a different approach. You will not be surprised to learn that in my experience this action seems to be the preserve of Cross Country Trains.

So now you can all tell me why I am wrong and being completely unreasonable.  Smiley 
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 09:08:40 »

My interpretation of this is that I should be able to occupy my reserved seat unless exceptional circumstances intervene. I do not regard lack of paper 'seat-back' reservation cards or a failure of any digital reservation system as an exceptional circumstance

That statement may be seen that way. Simply because everyone else will be unaware of your reservation & it isn't any fault of theirs when they take a seat completely unaware of this.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 09:59:51 »

I would not be happy if I had paid the full open fare, and taken a vacant seat with no reservation notice, and then been asked to move.
Given a choice of other seats I would probably move rather than argue.
If standing would result from moving, I would be most reluctant to move.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 10:05:04 »

Which is worth taking into consideration - the walk-up standard class fare for that route is between £40.60 and £48.60, so I at least wouldn't feel confident in trying to turf someone out if I'd only paid £8 for my ticket and they might have paid full price.

I've done it. During one of my split ticket sojourns to Blackpool, I found a rather objectionable young man of seemingly Russian extraction sitting in the seat that had been ordained to be mine. That was on the Cheltenham to New Street leg, where Cross Country had practically paid for the privilege of carrying me. He didn't want to move at first, but did so eventually when I threatened to get the train manager (I may have inadvertently mis-translated that as "Spetsnaz") albeit without so much as a "Spasiba".

On an earlier trip, I turfed a young lady out of my seat. She produced a ticket to prove it was hers - she had the right seat number, but the wrong carriage. She was mortified because she had kicked an elderly gentlemen out at Gloucester, but she went, presumably to kick him out again. Unfortunately, her gorgeous young friend, who occupied the seat opposite mine, went with her.
I've done that.  Embarrassed Misread the A that rather uselessly indicates "airline style seating" as carriage A. Luckily I hadn't turfed anyone out, so it was only me who had to traipse up to carriage Z.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page