Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 22:35 28 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
* Easter getaways hit by travel disruption
- Where Baltimore bridge investigation goes now
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Family anger at sentence on fatal crash driver, 19
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Woman found murdered on Orpington to London train (*)

Train RunningCancelled
19:35 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
20:56 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
21:30 Shalford to Reading
22:25 Bedwyn to Newbury
22:30 Gatwick Airport to Reading
22:47 Newbury to Bedwyn
Short Run
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
22:10 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads
23:04 Reading to Bedwyn
23:17 Bedwyn to Reading
Delayed
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:30 Gatwick Airport to Reading
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 22:43:39 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[104] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[103] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[78] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[56] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[41] Return of the BRUTE?
[25] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Collision at Frognal Farm user worked level crossing, Kent - 23 Oct 2017  (Read 2194 times)
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« on: November 14, 2017, 00:12:12 »

From the Rail Accident Investigation Branch website:

Quote
Collision at Frognal Farm user worked level crossing

Investigation into a collision between a train and a van at Frognal Farm level crossing, near Teynham, Kent, 23 October 2017.


Instructions to users on signs each side of the crossing

At around 15:03 hrs on 23 October 2017, train reporting number 1L32, the 14:20 hrs Southeastern service from Ramsgate to London St Pancras, travelling at about 85 mph (137 km/h), struck a delivery van on Frognal Farm user worked level crossing, between Teynham and Sittingbourne stations. The train did not derail, and none of the approximately 80 passengers and crew on board were hurt. The van was badly damaged, and its driver was taken to hospital with head and upper body injuries.

Frognal Farm level crossing is on a private road giving access to a small number of houses and a farm. Until March 2017, users had to open the gates themselves, having first telephoned the Network Rail signaller to confirm that it was safe to cross the line. In March 2017, Network Rail installed power operated gate opening (POGO) equipment at this crossing. Users should still telephone for permission to cross, but having done so they are now able to press a button to open the gates, without having to cross the line on foot.

On this occasion there is no evidence that the driver of the delivery van made a telephone call to the signaller. However, the signage provided at the crossing was not, in the RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch)’s view, clear.

In light of this accident RAIB has issued the following urgent safety advice to Network Rail: ‘Network Rail should urgently review the design and wording of the warning/instruction signs at user worked crossings with POGO equipment, to ensure that the instructions are clear, and alert users to the nature and severity of the risks’.

Our investigation into the accident will determine the sequence of events. It will also include consideration of:
- The way in which level crossings have been upgraded with POGO equipment, including the risk assessment and design process
- The safety record of this type of crossing
- The provision of information for regular and occasional users of private level crossings
- Any underlying management or regulatory factors

Our investigation is independent of any investigation by the railway industry, the British Transport Police or by the industry’s regulator, the Office of Rail and Road.

We will publish our findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of our investigation. This report will be available on our website.


My best wishes for a full recovery to the injured delivery van driver.  CfN.  Lips sealed

Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 00:33:11 »

More detail on the incident, from Kent Online:

Quote
Train hits van at level crossing in Lower Road, Teynham
     
Kent commuters were struggling to get home tonight after a train crash caused havoc to rush-hour rail services.

The incident happened at 3pm this afternoon when a high-speed Javelin train on its way to London St Pancras struck a delivery van on a level crossing near Teynham between Faversham and Sittingbourne.

The van driver, a man in his 30s, was taken to hospital with head injuries.

British Transport Police said officers were called to the scene at Frognal Farm crossing on the Lower Road after reports a train had struck a van. Kent Police and ambulance staff were also there.

A South East Coast Ambulance Service spokesman said: "The patient was fully conscious but had a head injury. The patient has been taken to Medway Maritime Hospital."

The spokesman added: "There is nothing to suggest anything life-changing but enough to need further treatment."

The train was left with a large gash ripped in its front nose cone. The front of the van's bonnet was ripped off in the collision.

Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 08:02:36 »

I really dislike it when journalists use such a phrase as "after a train crash caused havoc to rush-hour rail services" when in fact it is more likely to be the incorrect use of a level crossing by a road vehicle that caused the server delays.

Will the owner of the delivery van pay the compensation to the TOC (Train Operating Company) and NR» (Network Rail - home page) for the costs and compensation ................ errrrrr no but they should, the van was driven by a "professional" by professional I mean by someone employed to drive

###### Rant off #######  Grin
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 22:59:24 »

Thanks for posting, Electric train.  Cheesy

I really dislike it when journalists persist in using images of completely different level crossings to illustrate their stories.  This is Frognal Farm user worked level crossing (the picture shows the previous manually operated gate, which was replaced by Network Rail in March 2017):



I also found it interesting that the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch)) felt it appropriate to issue such 'urgent safety advice to Network Rail' just weeks after the incident - and well before RAIB have completed their report.  RAIB clearly found some grounds for concern over the level crossing signage at an early stage in their investigation.  However, we should not speculate further about who may or may not have been to 'blame' for the collision, until the full RAIB report is published.

Meanwhile, as an aside, I wish the injured delivery van driver a full recovery, irrespective of his employer: he's still a fellow driver.  Purely for the record, he's a DPD driver:



Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2018, 22:29:45 »

The RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report has been published today https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-122018-collision-at-frognal-farm-user-worked-crossing.  I have worked in the S&T (Signalling and Telegraph) industry for 50 years now and I have never ever seen a report so damming as this one, mostly directed at NR» (Network Rail - home page), ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and DfT» (Department for Transport - about).

The Chief Inspectors summary is very strongly worded, in particular the final sentence, and should be of great concern to all level crossing users:

Quote
Simon French, Chief Inspector of Rail Accidents said:
“However, I believe that the vital lesson from this investigation is how important it is that each user worked crossing is managed in a way that takes into account the context in which it is used, and the needs and expectations of the people who may encounter it in the course of their everyday business. It is time for a fresh approach to this problem, for the sake of crossing users, train passengers and railway staff, who are all at risk.”

Have a read of the report, look at the photographs of the level crossing arrangements, and I'm sure none of us would find how to safely treat that level crossing before crossing (and I include myself in that even after having worked in specifying and designing level crossings over a number of years).
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 11:51:53 by SandTEngineer » Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 08:16:11 »

Interesting read.  I feel the inspector is correct in there needs to be a change in the Law and regulations; only so much NR» (Network Rail - home page) can do in regards signage, the cost of turning them into fully controlled would be prohibitive.
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 09:16:52 »

It does seem counterintuitive that the responsibility for using the crossing correctly lies neither with the person crossing nor with the railways but with someone who happens to occupy the land. And more importantly, that it has to be explained by anyone is a weakness; surely a safety-critical system which is accessible to the general public should be clear, self-explanatory and able to be used by anyone.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2018, 10:09:07 »

It does seem counterintuitive that the responsibility for using the crossing correctly lies neither with the person crossing nor with the railways but with someone who happens to occupy the land. And more importantly, that it has to be explained by anyone is a weakness; surely a safety-critical system which is accessible to the general public should be clear, self-explanatory and able to be used by anyone.

I'm sure that some of the (in itself confusing) law on roads and rights of way and "what is a highway" comes into this. In England, using a road to access somewhere on that road can't create a right of way. Since a UWC (User Worked Crossing) is usually only there because there is no other access to a farm or house(s), it's quite likely the public have lo legal right to use it. In effect, it's a bit of your farm you need to cross to get to the public road, and legally the same as your driveway of your house in town.

That may explain the legal fiction that anyone using such a "road" does so by prior invitation. However, it does suggest this was unrealistic even when the first railways were built.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 08:43:31 »

It does seem counterintuitive that the responsibility for using the crossing correctly lies neither with the person crossing nor with the railways but with someone who happens to occupy the land. And more importantly, that it has to be explained by anyone is a weakness; surely a safety-critical system which is accessible to the general public should be clear, self-explanatory and able to be used by anyone.

These crossing are on private land so not accessible to the general public as a road vehicle user, might be as foot path, the owner of the land is responsible for the health and safety of anyone working on it, a parcels van driver is working, hence the owner of the land should ensure all are adequately aware of the hazards.


Clearly life is not that simple therefore the railways need to do something to make them safer or eradicate them, both of which NR» (Network Rail - home page) cannot do alone without DfT» (Department for Transport - about) and the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) giving NR some enablers
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page