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Author Topic: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017  (Read 4351 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 10:08:06 »

Quoting a little more in tribute

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SEATTLE (AP) — They weren't just two guys who loved trains. Jim Hamre and Zack Willhoite were also bosom buddies in their passion for public transportation who had excitedly awaited the day higher-speed trains could zip through their home turf. The two pals hopped on an Amtrak train together Monday, becoming some of the first passengers to take the maiden voyage of a faster route between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle.

Hamre, 61, and Willhoite, 35, were among the three killed when the train going 80 mph in a 30 mph zone derailed south of Seattle and toppled some cars on a highway below. Dozens of others were hurt, some seriously.

Family and friends said Tuesday that they were devastated by the deaths, describing the men as devoted rail advocates who were loved by many. They were both knowledgeable about the technical aspects of trains and had spent their lives advocating for such a route.

"Yesterday was a moment of great happiness for them, which makes this so heartbreaking," said Carl Fowler, a friend who has worked with Hamre and Willhoite in rail advocacy for years. He added: "Despite yesterday's tragedy, the Cascade corridor that they built will be their monument."
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didcotdean
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 17:20:06 »

One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?
Per train-kilometre the USA mortality rate is twice that of the EU» (European Union - about) average and about five times that in the UK (United Kingdom) (source: OECD).

Using a different measure, on average to experience any kind of injury on a train ride in France or Germany you would need to travel roughly 50 times further than in the USA. For further perspective this is still over 80,000 miles.

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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2017, 19:24:22 »

An update (22/12/2017):

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-no-passenger-trains-on-amtrak-derailment-route-until-safety-systems-are-in-place

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Washington state transportation officials won’t restart passenger service along the rail line where an Amtrak train derailed until advanced safety systems are in place, a spokeswoman said Thursday.

Barbara LaBoe, a spokeswoman for the Washington state Department of Transportation, said passenger trains will use the older rail line along the coast until “positive train control” technology is ready for the Point Defiance Bypass route.

The Amtrak train that derailed on Monday, killing three people and injuring dozens more, was on its inaugural passenger run along the new bypass line that was to speed service south of Tacoma. Investigators still examining the cause of the crash say the train was traveling 80 mph when it entered a curve that has a speed limit of 30 mph.

Officials pushed 'aggressive' timeline before safety tech was ready.

Here’s what we know — and don’t know — about the derailment near Olympia
It took authorities hours to search the wreckage.

Train was 50 mph over limit when it derailed at curve before I-5 crossing

Longtime rail advocates among those killed

Lakewood mayor had predicted new Amtrak rail line would lead to fatalities.

Man pulled gun on motorist taking food to Amtrak derailment first responders, prosecutors say

Positive train control systems can detect a train that’s exceeding speed limits and slow the train. Crews have been working to set up those systems on the Point Defiance Bypass route — and had hoped to have it ready at the start of service — but were still in the testing phase this week.

Officials had been working on an “aggressive” timeline to finish the new line this year, with documents showing the state had a deadline of the middle of the year to finish construction in order to fully collect on federal stimulus money awarded years earlier. The state had also vowed to open service in the fall.

LaBoe said the decision to halt passenger service on the new route until the systems were in place was not an indication that the state considers the tracks unsafe. She said the new line had been thoroughly inspected and that it was a matter of sensitivity, for those killed in the tragedy and for those who will ride the route in the future. She also said officials were wanting to have renewed conversations with communities along the new route.

“It’s not a question of the safety of those tracks,” LaBoe said. The older route where trains will continue running also does not have the train-control technology, but LaBoe said the state has been operating there for many years without major issues.

LaBoe said the state didn’t know when the train-control systems would be ready for the new line. A spokesman for Sound Transit, which owns the tracks, has said it’s planning to activate the technology before the end of June. Sound Transit has also been working to get more train-control coverage for its Sounder trains.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating this week’s derailment, has long pushed for train-control systems, repeatedly citing the issue after deadly crashes. In 2008, Congress mandated that railroads use the computerized systems by the end of 2015. But, facing cost and implementation challenges, the industry convinced Congress to extend the deadline until the end of 2018.

Accidents have continued to draw attention to the issue, and some have had speed similarities similar to Monday’s crash. In 2013, a Metro-North passenger train in New York derailed while traveling 82 mph at a curve where the maximum authorized speed was 30 mph, according to the NTSB, killing four people and injuring dozens. In 2015, an Amtrak passenger train in Philadelphia derailed while traveling 106 mph around a curve where the speed was restricted to 50 mph, according to the NTSB, killing eight people and injuring many more.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 19:33:47 by SandTEngineer » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2017, 19:45:31 »

This youtube video has some interesting clips and photos and a segment on "PTC"  we would call it ETCS (European Train Control System) level 2.

You'll have to excuse the presenter he is American, a youtuber and not a professional reporter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv8PEG0hcbQ
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« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2017, 00:50:41 »

The personal story of someone who was on the train ...

https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/

Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ...
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2017, 07:38:12 »

The personal story of someone who was on the train ...

https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/

Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ...

The American way of accident investigation in the open leads to a further drip out of evidence of what went wrong to the media.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonwells/amtrak-engineer-knew-train-was-going-too-fast

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207893/Curve-emergency-brakes-played-role-Amtrak-crash.html

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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2017, 10:22:00 »

Oh dear......

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The train was equipped with Positive Train Control, a technology that uses GPS to monitor and automatically slow trains down in potentially dangerous situations, but the system had not yet been certified for use, officials said.

I wonder why?
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2017, 16:22:52 »

This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17.   The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK (United Kingdom) except Eurostar 373.  Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zv3dSuarXE

The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. 

I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident 
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« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2017, 17:32:11 »

This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17.   The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK (United Kingdom) except Eurostar 373.  Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages.

The initial reports did say the carriages were made by Talgo, so the use of what is their signature design feature isn't a surprise. They are longer than the original Spansih ones, though.

Quote
The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. 

I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident 

The fixed structural pivots of the articulated bogie (even with one axle) should hold the carriages upright much better than any coupling, though once the train concertinas that effect no longer operates over the full length of the train.

The analysis after the "Polmont Cow" didn't support the idea that having a light trailer at the front made derailment easier, let alone that having mass at the rear would. I think the key point is whether and where the train concertinas, and that is due to the back overrunning the front. Once the lead carriages are running off the track they must slow down fast, probably much faster even than brakes can on the track. I suspect the mass of half a train pushing a carriage, when its front end is being pushed back and sideways by the half that's derailed and now slowing, would be enough to produce this kind of opposite-side derailment.

After the Polmont Cow accident (I was living in Bo'ness, which is very close, in 1984) my thought was that having a heavy lead vehicle, which would decelerate slower than the trailers behind it, would be a good idea. That ought to pull the derailed part of the consist straight and so resist it concertaing, which at Polmont the leading DVT(resolve) clearly didn't.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2017, 08:39:21 »

There is an interesting report from somebody aboard the derailed train: https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment
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