SandTEngineer
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« on: December 18, 2017, 18:21:29 » |
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This looks really serious. The train has derailed off an overbridge onto one of the state highways. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42401707 Train carriages have plummeted on to a motorway in Washington state, causing "multiple" fatalities, police say.
The train derailed and the carriages fell on to the I-5 highway below.
Images from the scene show emergency services treating people on the ground. It appears that at least four carriages have left the track; one of them is upside down on the highway.
Several cars on the highway were struck by the derailed carriages, the Pierce County Sheriff's department says.
Sheriff department spokesman Ed Troyer said that there were "multiple" fatalities on the train, but no motorists had been killed.
The fire department had taken many people out of the train and they had been taken to hospitals, he added.
One carriage was hanging from the tracks, while another was upside down Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said the carriage he was on careened down an embankment then came to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling."
"In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he said.
Amtrak said that there were approximately 78 passengers and five crew members on board the train.
The incident happened near DuPont, which is southwest of Tacoma.
Officials have set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall, and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash.
The was the first time an Amtrak train carrying passengers southbound had run on a new section of track running parallel to I-5, called the Point Defiance Bypass.
The crash occurred around 07:30 (15:30 GMT), about 45 minutes into train 501's journey between Portland and Seattle.
Before the crash, it was travelling at more than 80mph (130km/h).
The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating.
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 19:22:56 » |
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As a part-time railwayman, something about this stinks. I'll leave it at that right now.
Condolences to all. Awful time.
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 19:39:12 » |
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I noted that the line opened ... today - https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/default.htm - and as such there will be some rather different factors to the norm to be considered. Overview The Point Defiance Bypass Project will reroute passenger trains to an inland rail line along the west side of I-5 through south Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont. Sound Transit currently uses a portion of this route for Sounder commuter rail service to Lakewood. This project will improve passenger train reliability by reducing congestion with freight trains and eliminating travel on tight corners and tunnels.
Why is WSDOT upgrading tracks for passenger trains to bypass the Point Defiance area in Tacoma? Passenger trains, including Amtrak Cascades, currently must slow down due to curves and single-track tunnels on the BNSF Railway main line tracks near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound.
This project reroutes passenger trains to an inland route. The bypass is on an existing rail line that runs along the west side of Interstate 5 (I-5), from south Tacoma through Lakewood and DuPont. It reconnects back to the BNSF Railway main line near Nisqually, on the east side of I-5. It also adds a new Amtrak Cascades station in Tacoma's Freighthouse Square building.
Freight train traffic patterns will not change with most freight trains continuing to use the existing main line near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound. The few freight trains that currently use the bypass route will continue to use it during and after the project.
The End Result The end result is more frequent, more reliable, and faster Amtrak Cascades service.
The improvements will allow passenger trains to use the bypass route without being delayed by freight or Sounder trains. After the completion of other capital rail projects, two additional daily round trip passenger trains could be added. Freight train traffic will not increase on this line beyond the minimal amount that utilizes it today.
When completed, the Point Defiance Rail Bypass project will bring a total of six daily round trip Amtrak Cascades trains and one Coast Starlight train through Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont intersections, with an average crossing time of 45 seconds per intersection and a maximum speed of 79 mph.
Project Benefits
Improved Amtrak Cascades reliability. Faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service.
What is the project timeline? The environmental and design process began in July 2006, and was completed in 2008. The new line opens to service on Dec. 18, 2017.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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stuving
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 19:44:07 » |
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I saw that said this was a new bit of line. It is mostly straight, alongside I5, then does quite a sharp wiggle to cross it to the south side to join the old Point Defiance line. I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's.
It looks as if the front of the train did leave the track to go straight on, down a slope to the road. As it slowed the following carriages concertinaed and some came off on the inside of the turn and so they came down the side of the embankment beside the bridge.
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trainer
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 22:24:18 » |
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On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations. However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything.
A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it.
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 06:40:40 » |
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On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations. However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything.
A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it.
Mr Trump's suggestion that this shows the need for infrastructure modernisation seems to be at odds with what is being said elsewhere. True, we don't speculate before anything's know here ... but so much is bang said and talked about that I'm going to quote an online sources. From ApNewsDUPONT, Wash. (AP) — An Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off an overpass south of Seattle on Monday and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing at least three people, injuring dozens and crushing two vehicles, authorities said.
Attention quickly turned to the train’s speed. A website that maps location and speed using data from Amtrak’s train tracker app showed the train was going 81.1 mph (129 kph) about a quarter of a mile from the point where it derailed, where the speed limit is significantly lower.
There were 80 passengers and five on duty crew when the train derailed and pulled 13 cars off the tracks. Authorities said there were three confirmed deaths. More than 70 people were taken for medical care — including 10 with serious injuries.
About two hours after the accident, a U.S. official who was briefed on the investigation said he was told at least six people were killed. The official said he had no new information to explain the discrepancy in the numbers.
The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
A track chart prepared by the Washington State Department of Transportation shows the maximum speed drops from 79 mph (127 kph) to 30 mph (48 kph) for passenger trains just before the tracks curve to cross Interstate 5, which is where the train went off the tracks.
The chart, dated Feb. 7, 2017, was submitted to the Federal Railroad Administration in anticipation of the start of passenger service along a new bypass route that shaves 10 minutes off the trip between Seattle and Portland.
It was not clear how fast the train was moving at the precise moment when it derailed. National Transportation Safety Board investigators were at the scene trying to determine the derailment’s cause.
Kimberly Reason with Sound Transit, the Seattle-area transit agency that owns the tracks, confirmed to the AP that the speed limit at the point where the train derailed is 30 mph (48 kph). Speed signs are posted two miles before the speed zone and just before the speed zone approaching the curve, she said.
Positive train control — the technology that can slow or stop a speeding train — wasn’t in use on this stretch of track, according to Amtrak President Richard Anderson.
He spoke on a conference call with reporters, said he was “deeply saddened by all that has happened today.”
Bob Chipkevich, a former NTSB director of railroad, pipeline and hazardous materials investigations, told The Seattle Times the crash looked like a high-speed derailment based on television images.
In a radio transmission immediately after the accident, the conductor can be heard saying the train was coming around a corner and was crossing a bridge that passed over Interstate 5 when it derailed. Dispatch audio also indicated that the engineer survived with bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut.
“I’m still figuring that out. We’ve got cars everywhere and down onto the highway,” he tells the dispatcher, who asks if everyone is OK.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 07:52:39 » |
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And from The BBC» ... new text at the top into which I suspect they've pasted background from yesterday A US passenger train that derailed, killing three people, was going at 81mph (130km/h) on a curve with a restricted speed limit, according to data from a train tracking website.The curve's speed limit drops to 30mph.Passengers say the train rocked and creaked as it took the bend fast before barrelling off a bridge on to a motorway packed with traffic.
It happened in Washington state during rush hour on Monday and officials say 72 people were taken to hospitals.
A number of those injured are reported to be in a critical condition. Authorities said all carriages had now been searched, but would not rule out a rise in the number of dead.
The cause of Monday's crash has not been confirmed. Seven vehicles, two of them lorries, were hit on the I-5 highway below. Several people were injured in their vehicles but none died.
State transport spokesperson Barbara LaBoe was quoted in the Seattle Times newspaper as saying the limit on most of the track was 79mph (128km/h) but drivers were supposed to slow dramatically at the spot where the train derailed. She said warning signs were in place two miles before the lowered limit.
It was Amtrak's first passenger service to run on a new, shorter route. Amtrak is the name of the company that runs most passenger trains in the US, with some government funding. The derailment happened on a section of track previously only used for freight trains.
Train 501 had left Seattle, heading south for Portland, at 06:00 local time (14:00 GMT).
One passenger carriage could be seen dangling from the bridge, while others were strewn across the road and the wooded area next to the track.There were 86 people on board, including 77 passengers and seven Amtrak crew members, as well as a train technician. Police say 19 people were taken from the scene uninjured. Of the 72 transferred to hospitals for evaluation, 10 were considered to have serious injuries.
A recording of the train's emergency call to railway dispatchers was released to US media. "Emergency! We are on the ground!" a man, possibly the conductor, radios in. In a second radio call, another crew member reports that only the rear unit remains on the rails. "All other cars appear to be on the ground in quite a mess," he says. The train's engineer has a head injury, he tells dispatchers.
President Donald Trump's first reaction to the derailment was to tweet that it showed the need for his forthcoming infrastructure plan. However US media outlets pointed out his submitted federal transportation budget actually proposed cuts to funding to national rail systems. He later added that his thoughts and prayers were with those involved.
The section of track where the crash happened has been recently rebuilt and upgraded using federal funds.
Washington's governor has declared a state of emergency in two counties.
Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said his carriage had careered down an embankment then come to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling." "In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he added.
Governor Jay Inslee said he was praying for the many injured. Officials set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash.
A local news reporter who was on the train, but got off at a stop just before the crash, said many of those on board were railway enthusiasts, keen to experience the first high-speed train on the new route. Every passenger was given a commemorative lanyard and badge to mark their journey, he said.
The train involved was operated by Amtrak and Monday's service was the first 0600 departure under the new timetable and on the new Point Defiance Bypass route
The train consisted of 14 cars, two of which were locomotives
It was being led by a Siemens Charger locomotive and was trailing a P52 unit which was not under power, Amtrak said
There were 12 Talgo carriages, each of which could take up to 36 passengers, but only 77 customers were on board
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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TonyK
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 09:29:39 » |
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Whatever the cause, it is an awful accident. It is amazing, however, that it wasn't worse. Despite carriages falling onto a busy road in rush hour, no-one outside the train seems to have died as a result of this incident.
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Now, please!
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Phantom
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 12:19:15 » |
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I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's.
Doing 80 mph on an area where the limit was 30mph Inexperienced driver using the new line?, Train fault? Something went VERY wrong RIP
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 18:01:55 » |
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I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens... but it's a bend alright, as you can see on Google mapsEdit: add link to Google maps
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 18:10:43 by Red Squirrel »
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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stuving
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 18:33:43 » |
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I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens... Seen from above, it's still quite a bend for a train. There have been a lot of overspeed accidents recently, and the main three I can think of have two big common factors. The three are SNCF▸ Eckwersheim Nov 2015, Amtrak Philadelphia May 2015, and Renfe Santiago de Compostela July 2013. Firstly, all these trains could or should have had some train control system that would prevent overspeeding, by warning the driver or intervening. It was variously turned off for testing, missing transitionally, and for Amtrak "OK, we're doing it but give us a year or two more" still applies for the latest one. When the NTSB reported on Amtrak Passenger Train 188, the chairman commented “Unless positive train control is implemented soon, I’m very concerned that we’re going to be back in this room again, hearing investigators detail how technology that we have recommended for more than 45 years could have prevented yet another fatal rail accident.” The other common factor in the first three is distraction. Phone calls, radio messages, and too many people in the cab all played a part in "loss of situational awareness". I will not be surprised if this inaugural trip over a new section of track involved something similar. Otherwise, the new track only has one very noticeable feature in it - a sharp bend following a long straight.
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:06:14 by stuving »
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froome
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 18:57:16 » |
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One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?
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grahame
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 19:53:59 » |
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One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?
There do seem to be an awful lot of them. Whether that's because ATC▸ only operates on a few lines and there are large numbers of open level crossings, or simply because it's such a huge country and accidents per mile are no worse than elsewhere, I wouldn't know. Obviously, if you have a line 10 miles long that carried 1500 journeys a day, it's a lot cheaper to maintain than a line 100 miles long with the same number of journeys, so things seem not to be quite so gold-safety plated as in the UK▸ .
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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