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Author Topic: Very long term - where will Bristol Suburban trains be?  (Read 10530 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 06:46:35 »

Now, MP (Member of Parliament) Darren Jones is holding a Gridlock Conference on Saturday 7th July 2018, taking place from 2:30 to approximately 4:30 pm.The event will be held at Henbury and Brentry Community Centre, Machin Road, Henbury, BS10 7HG.

An excellent idea

Quote
So - I can't attend myself; I can't get any other FOSBR members to go. ....

And re: 20th April FOSBR meeting

Yes - we now have three speakers lined up:

Me on FOSBR Rail Plan 2018 and how to help us launch it

Esther Giles, frequent rail passenger on "Whose agenda - the rail passengers or the stakeholders" - she's got involved with the We Own It renationalisation campaign and some of their media stunts.

I can't help asking whether the current FOSBR is the right / ideal vehicle for getting involved in a long term partnership with all the other parties involved to look at the very real issues that - from what I've seen - North Bristol faces with regards Gridlock.   

As someone who doesn't live in the area, but visits from time to time - driving, using the train and sometimes using the bus, I dread my journeys.  Whether Metrobus and MetroWest will improve the journeys (they should) and improve them to the extent of removing all the gridlock / access issues (I very much doubt they could achieve that Utopia) I cannot be sure. What is needed is partners who will consistently work with MPs, local authorities, train operating companies for the common good and common goals, being there when needed / invited, and not prone to throwing "media stunts" or being unable to put anyone up for meetings which are in the mainstream of their objectives.

It's rare to find any ideal vehicle though - and perhaps FOSBR comes closest?   Or perhaps FOSBR can pick up a groundswell and grow back into the role, with a clear partnership policy of working with everyone - a broad church listening to all views from guests at the their meetings, but without any perceived threat of putting political agendae above sorting out what I think are very real issues, and with depth to be consistently able to put up representatives at relevant meetings.


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grahame
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 08:56:35 »

Yes - we now have three speakers lined up:

...( 1 )

Esther Giles, frequent rail passenger on "Whose agenda - the rail passengers or the stakeholders" - she's got involved with the We Own It renationalisation campaign and some of their media stunts.

... ( 3 )

I have come back to further comment.

In my view, it should be the agenda of the passengers and the other Stakeholders - and it should not start from a competition between the two (with a winner and a loser), but with an attitude for everyone to work together for the mutual good.

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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 12:03:15 »


In my view, it should be the agenda of the passengers and the other Stakeholders - and it should not start from a competition between the two (with a winner and a loser), but with an attitude for everyone to work together for the mutual good.


Quite so. And that's why I'm not a member of FOSBR (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways).
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2018, 13:00:10 »

Just looking for a good place to start a new dicussion on Bristol Airport.
  

Surely it is better to link directly to Temple Meads via the A1, this connects with Cross Country as well as GWR (Great Western Railway), and many rail passengers going to the airport would need to change at BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) anyway if they were getting a less frequent min bus from Nailsea and Backwell.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2018, 22:22:59 »


In my view, it should be the agenda of the passengers and the other Stakeholders - and it should not start from a competition between the two (with a winner and a loser), but with an attitude for everyone to work together for the mutual good.


Quite so. And that's why I'm not a member of FOSBR (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways).

I would be the first to agree with this view. I do still keep my FOSBR subscription running as I have seen the good work they have done. Like with any other group/party, my views may not be the same on every single issue as with many other members but I believe FOSBR is a wide enough church to make my membership worthwhile. After all, just look at the differing views on our forum. As to the different ways they can contribute to promote rail, I think all pro rail groups have their values and shortcomings.
That said, although I may not be very conciliatory about Metrobust, I do still believe in the general principle of getting different interests to at least try to work together.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 01:37:43 »

Someone has just posted a suggestion to use Stancombe quarry as a rail route to the airport, presumably from somewhere near Flax Bourton or Long Ashton (if you look at the map).   

It would actually be from 'somewhere between Flax Bourton and Backwell' - and even that only works if you look at the map and disregard the contour markings, I rather think you'll find, Tina.  Wink

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metalrail
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 21:19:34 »

Back to the original map...  how about re-instating the last 1 mile of track that was lifted years ago between SVB and PIL?  That would give us the full double loop service again, with PWY able to be served by many more local services, and even give the Yate corridor a direct link to the full SVB line!

For the sake of that tiny track link that was removed we've lost the entire outer Bristol loop, which combined with a re-opened Henbury loop would give us endless local flexibility...

Yeah I know the M49 link road was built over part of the alignment, but if we're looking at some of the ideas for the next 30 years then this one surely has to be one of the simplest for the benefits it would bring?   Smiley
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Oh for the day when I can catch a train from Mangotsfield to the Centre, Bath and Yate!  ;-)
johnneyw
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 23:00:58 »

Back to the original map...  how about re-instating the last 1 mile of track that was lifted years ago between SVB and PIL?  That would give us the full double loop service again, with PWY able to be served by many more local services, and even give the Yate corridor a direct link to the full SVB line!

For the sake of that tiny track link that was removed we've lost the entire outer Bristol loop, which combined with a re-opened Henbury loop would give us endless local flexibility...

Yeah I know the M49 link road was built over part of the alignment, but if we're looking at some of the ideas for the next 30 years then this one surely has to be one of the simplest for the benefits it would bring?   Smiley

There is a fair bit if development in addition to the motorway on the old track bed which is a pity as it would be useful to have kept it.
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grahame
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2018, 06:15:26 »

Yeah I know the M49 link road was built over part of the alignment, but if we're looking at some of the ideas for the next 30 years then this one surely has to be one of the simplest for the benefits it would bring?   Smiley

What makes that easy in distance is made up for by a lot of stuff along the way.  Hard to make out the path of the old railway or how you might thread it through



S - Severn Beach Station
P - Pilning (current, high level) Station.

Pilning Low Level station was just to the north of the High Level, with the line leading off to the North West, parallel with the road to - err - Pilning. It then looped around close to the top of the map and headed south with a bit of west.  You can just about make out the old course of the line at the Pilning end from the photo and tell where it was if you're there on the ground with a few clues from things like fence and field alignments.  At the Severn Beach end it has been mostly lost under development; odd clues in the one or two slightly more modern houses where it crossed some roads.   I think it would be difficult to locate any remains to indicate where the intermediate stations of Cross Hands and New Passage were sited, though that's something I have not tried.
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2018, 09:48:02 »

Quote
What makes that easy in distance is made up for by a lot of stuff along the way.  Hard to make out the path of the old railway or how you might thread it through

Yeah I know... a single track bed width which is all the old link was could have so easily been retained by BR (British Rail(ways)) (at the time) just in case...  as is the case with so many lost alignments.  Hindsight is such a wonderful thing!   Wink

http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:57221.jpg

http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Ableton_Lane_Crossing2.jpg
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 09:53:03 by metalrail » Logged

Oh for the day when I can catch a train from Mangotsfield to the Centre, Bath and Yate!  ;-)
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2018, 22:37:53 »

I think Pilning works rather well as the main access from Wales and Taunton to Severnside. One of the problems cited with a passenger service on the Henbury Loop, according to the 2015 CH2MHill report, was that a full loop service is much harder to timetable than a series of branch lines - at least, much was made of the difficulty of finding paths both at Narroways and also at the Filton Diamond that would turn into a full loop timetable without too much trainset time wasted. Surely trying to timetable a double loop would be even worse?

I am very happy to be educated on Stancombe Quarry, but surely in the meantime a shuttlebus service from Nailsea and Backwell would be a good trial - after all there is a 30 minute frequency there and it might not be too difficult to persuade Cross-Country trains to stop there as well as more direct London trains, now we have bimodal. Surely the lack of electrification to Temple Meads could have this silver lining? I know GWR (Great Western Railway) were keen on the idea, until the plans for a ramp on the south platform were ditched?

Hope the TranWilts AGM (Annual General Meeting) today went well by the way. Was anyone there from FOSBR (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) in the end? I did try and get some of the cttee interested. Good that the MetroWest story (Westbury and Glos) made it into the Post - who was responsible for that?

Had a very good meeting Weds on Severn Beach Line, but sorry, Chatham rules.... watch this space though.

Tina
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martyjon
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2018, 05:35:25 »

.... a full loop service is much harder to timetable than a series of branch lines - at least, much was made of the difficulty of finding paths both at Narroways and also at the Filton Diamond that would turn into a full loop timetable without too much trainset time wasted ....

But that was too hard under a two tracked Filton Bank but we are getting a four tracked Filton Bank and one of the benefits for approving the four tracking was to enable a rail service to be restored on the Henbury Loop.
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grahame
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« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2018, 05:49:41 »

I think Pilning works rather well as the main access from Wales and Taunton to Severnside. One of the problems cited with a passenger service on the Henbury Loop, according to the 2015 CH2MHill report, was that a full loop service is much harder to timetable than a series of branch lines - at least, much was made of the difficulty of finding paths both at Narroways and also at the Filton Diamond that would turn into a full loop timetable without too much trainset time wasted. Surely trying to timetable a double loop would be even worse?

Tell me about timetabling double ended lines with single track sections, freight  and busy junctions!! Other examples of tricky timetabling jobs with all three issues include Swindon to Westbury and Salisbury to Romsey via Southampton.   Revival of an outer loop (Pilning to Severn Beach, via Cross Hands and New Passage) is very, very unlikely. 

Pilning as access (as you suggest) from Wales - also from Taunton, Weston and Bristol City Centre and suburbs - to Severnside "works rather well" - or would do if there were trains when people wanted them and an infrastructure to support.  It also works the other way - for road traffic coming off the current M48 junction at Aust and the upcoming M49 junction to park up and use local trains into Bristol - and perhaps into the south Wales cities too?   Looking at the Severnside connection for passengers, Pilning platforms with access to the B4055 is just a few hundred yards walk to the start of that employment development at Westgate, and that access is already served by a bus that takes in major business and commercial destinations.

Quote
Hope the TranWilts AGM (Annual General Meeting) today went well by the way. Was anyone there from FOSBR in the end? I did try and get some of the cttee interested. Good that the MetroWest story (Westbury and Glos) made it into the Post - who was responsible for that?

We had a number of visitors from the Bristol area and Gloucestershire, but none that I spoke with and would have considered to be there to primarily represent FoSBR» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site), or who identified themselves as such to me.   But the fosBr - the B is Bristol - and you have plenty Bristol to be getting on with  Wink and it was a very busy meeting!

You mention Westbury - significant talk of that, of course, including the immediate and fall out effects MetroWest reaching there. The daily commuter flow from Frome and West Wilts into Bath / Bristol is significant, and set and planned to grow. Please do take a look at the presentations from the day and annual report, via http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19577.msg236776#msg236776


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« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2018, 10:13:49 »

Short term, not going very far today, overrunning engineering works between BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) and BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)).
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« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2018, 13:05:52 »

BPW» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) - Bristol Parkway
BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) - Bristol Temple Meads. Not BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)).
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