New Jan 2nd 2018 TimeTable

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

I forecast that it would be lightly used when Plymouth brethrin pushed for this. I'm still of the opinion that there'll only be double-figure patronage east  of Taunton this year on average....

[JayMac]

when Plymouth brethrin pushed for this.

Not sure the cult-ish evangelical Christians actively campaigned for the early train. 

[grahame]

I forecast that it would be lightly used when Plymouth brethrin pushed for this. I'm still of the opinion that there'll only be double-figure patronage east  of Taunton this year on average....

I recall learning from the experts (including the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and rail minister at the time, no less) that it takes three years for a new / trial service to bed in, and that low(er) loadings at some point on a run - for the first or last couple of stops especially - are one of those awkward things that depress the overall stats but are needed to gather/ungather the custom.   I also learned to watch new and trial services and look to check that they weren't just missing the bull's eye - where a minute or two here or there, a single extra stop perhaps, could make a difference between something that took off and was well used, or something that frankly floundered to be quietly faded out over time as new timetables and new stop changed the route out of all recognition - and recognised it into something very different without having to admit that.

I would be gobsmacked if the 06:37 / 06:33 of Paddington ever becomes a busy train unless we have mega social change in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).   But I have, very occasionally, been gobsmacked before and I hope it happens.   I do look at the (even earlier!) 05:19 Paddington to Swansea and I expect that loadings off Paddington are similarly light - however, within the hour it's picking up a large number of people, and it becomes a busy train all through the morning peak at a plethora of stops.  The empty seats from Paddington on the 05:19 are acceptable as a consequence of a lot of stations usefully served alone the way; the 06:33 (alas) doesn't stop at [enough] stations to fulfil that role for people who would love to be able to get on and off.

[ChrisB]

I was referring to spokes-persons for Plymouth businesses who were stating that the lack of a early morning arrival was holding back/preventing them improving their economy- ie to me, meaning quick take up on this service if provided. Hmmm.

Several members here agreed with them.

[TonyK]

when Plymouth brethrin pushed for this.

Not sure the cult-ish evangelical Christians actively campaigned for the early train. 

For those unsure of how the Plymouth Brethren (Exclusive) differ from the Church of England, I shall try to explain the variations in theology and doctrine in simple terms:

C of E: Anything goes, so long as it is not contrary to Biblical teachings (which are open to interpretation)
Plymouth Brethren: Everything is forbidden unless it's compulsory.

Anglican vicars seem to figure highly in the railway world, especially when it comes to steam trains on long-forgotten branch lines. Brethren tend to travel in people carriers, having larger families than the average.

[PhilWakely]

Anglican vicars seem to figure highly in the railway world, especially when it comes to steam trains on long-forgotten branch lines......

Not forgetting a certain fictitious island situated twixt Cumbria and the Isle of Man 

Getting back to the 06:33 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ, but at a slight tangent. When this new service was originally loaded into the system, it included a stop at Newton Abbot at 09:02. This was very much applauded locally as there was a very large gap in NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) services between 08:35 and 09:55. We were then told that the proposed NTA stop was not going to happen; the 07:03 PAD-PNZ would be re-routed to run to Paignton and a new 09:24 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-PNZ service would run, calling at NTA at 09:45 to compensate for the loss of the 09:55 stop. A slight improvement on the 80 minute gap in the service - EXCEPT, the printed public timetable still showed the 09:24 EXD-PNZ service calling at NTA at 09:55 rather than 09:45! Not a good start, with pax still turning up for 09:55.

Incidentally, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), several Advance tickets were sold at NTA for what would have been the 09:02 departure for Plymouth! 

[Zoe]

Getting back to the 06:33 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PNZ, but at a slight tangent. When this new service was originally loaded into the system, it included a stop at Newton Abbot at 09:02. This was very much applauded locally as there was a very large gap in NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) services between 08:35 and 09:55. We were then told that the proposed NTA stop was not going to happen; the 07:03 PAD-PNZ would be re-routed to run to Paignton and a new 09:24 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-PNZ service would run, calling at NTA at 09:45 to compensate for the loss of the 09:55 stop. A slight improvement on the 80 minute gap in the service - EXCEPT, the printed public timetable still showed the 09:24 EXD-PNZ service calling at NTA at 09:55 rather than 09:45! Not a good start, with pax still turning up for 09:55.

Incidentally, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), several Advance tickets were sold at NTA for what would have been the 09:02 departure for Plymouth! 

Until this week this week what was the 0633 (will be 0635 from May) was showing in the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) schedule data as calling at Newton Abbot from the May timetable change and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) were also offering advance tickets for this train.  As of this week though the Newton Abbot call has been removed with the public arrival time into Plymouth now 0935.  I expect that once again Newton Abbot had to be removed in order to allow for a headline 3 hour journey time to Plymouth but I thought that everything had to be set in stone 12 weeks in advance (except for essential engineering work).  Seeing as this has now happened twice, I wonder how much freedom there actually is to change the timetable within this period even if advance tickets have been sold.

[bobm]

I still question this desire for headline fast end to end journey times if it means the train calling at fewer and fewer places en route.   I have travelled on that service a few times and it has rarely been anything like busy.  Take out the Newton Abbot stop and it becomes another reason not to use it.

[trainer]

I still question this desire for headline fast end to end journey times ... Take out the Newton Abbot stop and it becomes another reason not to use it.

I would not presume to comment on the details of this particular service, but I wonder if someone with a commercial mind might decide that while fewer stops may deter/prevent some from travelling, it may increase the attractiveness of a faster journey for others joining at larger stations to a degree that more than compensates.  For those on long journeys it isn't just a faster journey that might encourage them to choose the train over other transport options, but the reduction in the flow of passengers settling down/preparing to leave every 20 minutes (especially in crowded XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) trains) might also add to a more settled and relaxing atmosphere.

I'm sure there is a matrix of reasons for trains calling/not calling at stations, but I offer this to the mix of reasons.

(I think Graham may have touched on this subject under another heading a while ago, but I can't find the thread.)

[grahame]

(I think Graham may have touched on this subject under another heading a while ago, but I can't find the thread.)

I'm sure I did ... I have views 

I suspect you have a marketing v sales conflict on the 06:3[35] off Paddington.  The sales people want to include stops at Westbury and Newton Abbott to take a train that's got a considerable number of empty seats as it heads west, so that it can generate more revenue for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) each day it runs.  The marketing people want it to make the journey in three hours so that means hardly any stops so that they can advertise a three-hour service and generate more overall revenue for GWR at all times of day by attracting people to the services with a smart "from just three hours" headline.

The solution?   Change to metric hours of 100 minutes, then you have a run time of 198 minutes for this train and can stop at selected extra places and claim London to Plymouth in under two hours.

[TonyK]

The solution?   Change to metric hours of 100 minutes, then you have a run time of 198 minutes for this train and can stop at selected extra places and claim London to Plymouth in under two hours.

I see. We could have a centiday and a deciday, as well as a megaday birthday, when you get a card from the Queen. Services on the railway will close on Bank minidays, and senior railcards will be available to anyone receiving superkilodayuation.

[TaplowGreen]

The solution?   Change to metric hours of 100 minutes, then you have a run time of 198 minutes for this train and can stop at selected extra places and claim London to Plymouth in under two hours.

I see. We could have a centiday and a deciday, as well as a megaday birthday, when you get a card from the Queen. Services on the railway will close on Bank minidays, and senior railcards will be available to anyone receiving superkilodayuation.

Lost in the great server meltdown, but I think this was Graham's "April Fool", albeit a little early! 🙂