Turbo - (request for) a primer

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The "Thames Turbo" trains - class 165 and 166 - are coming to the Bristol suburban area, and the tentacles out to Worcester, Weymouth, Taunton, Cardiff and Portsmouth too.   But I find myself a little confused between the detail of the classes, and what we're getting into the Bristol area.   Can someone help me with some "101" questions ...

1. What's the difference between a 165 and a 166?

2. Which / how many are 3 carriages and which are 2 carriages?

3. Is the seating all 3 + 2 or is some 2 + 2?

4. Will the have Wifi?  230v charging?  USB chargers?   When they arrive with us?   Sometime thereafter?

5. Will they / do they have some form of selective door opening?

6. What's the situation on First Class in these trains?

7. Will they be able to run to Brighton?

8. I think some of these units have extra luggage space?   Are we getting any of those to help with Southampton cruise traffic?

I think I know some of the answers ... but help from someone 'in the know' would be appreciated!

[LiskeardRich]

165/0 have top speed of 75mph (irrelevant I suspect to the question as these are Chiltern versions, 165/1 and 166 top out at 90mph.
166 are all 3 car, and have air con.
There were 16 3 car 165101-117, and 20 2 car 165/1 165118-137. 165115 was destroyed at Ladbroke Grove accident leaving 15 3 car

[ChrisB]

Can't answer all these, but I'll give you something to start with....

1. 166 have half a coach with tables - one end of the middle coach. Of course, first class has been converted to Standard now, so hose sections have tables too, but the ones in the middle have better leg room oddly. 166s have aircon, but it rarely works in my opinion.

2.  166s are all 3car. 165s are a mixture of 2car & 3car. Don't know total fleet numbers, but I bet Wiki does. How many of each are transferring isn't widely known yet.

3. All 3 x 2, except the centre section with tables on the 166s which are 2 x 2 around the tables..

4. I think wifi was fitted recently (to the 166s at least), but someone else needs to confirm. No charging/plug points (& I don't think there's any intention of fitting either - might not be possible with the current electrics, they're quite old, built before people needed these. How many people had a mobile in the early 80s?)

5. No SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) fitted.

6. There isn't any - removed a while ago now.

7. ??

8. Some of the 166s on the Gatwick route had luggage space - as Gatwick services continue using these trains, I suspect they won't transfer, but I don't know for sure.

[Thatcham Crossing]

How many people had a mobile in the early 80s?)

The Turbo's were built/introduced in the early 90's weren't they?.....but I guess the point still stands.

[ChrisB]

Were Thames Trains in the 90s?

[Electric train]

All of the Thames Valley class 165 both the 2 and 3 car are 90mph.  The only 165s limited to 75mph were the Chiltern ones these have subsequently been changed to 90mph.

There was a gauging excersise done on the change of ride hight for the units going west part of that was third rail clearance which was just a tick in the box.   Other than physical gauging eg running boards, driving cab step clearance why the 156/6 should not be able to go to Brighton they already do Reading Gatwick.  165/6 are a Networker simular to the 465's

[eightf48544]

One thing unless modified 165/6s can't work in multiple with 14X/15X/17X they can couple but there's a different number of control wires, which I believe means depending on which type is leading you will not have a brake!.

[RA]

One thing unless modified 165/6s can't work in multiple with 14X/15X/17X they can couple but there's a different number of control wires, which I believe means depending on which type is leading you will not have a brake!.

Another example of a non-standardised coupling, even though they all have BSI^▸ (British Standards Institute) couplers. A 14x/15x/17x unit can be coupled to a 16x unit, but only mechanically in order to clear a failure from the running line. As mentioned, the electrical connections are not compatible which requires them to be 'dropped down' so they don't come into contact when coupling. This means there is no through control of the brakes so it is only to remove a failed unit from a running line. Ride Height Modified (RHM)16x units create another problem as the air suspension on the unit must first be drained of air in order to couple to a non RHM unit.

Class 158 units will be used on the Brighton route for the forseeable future, even after class 16x units are running to Portsmouth.

[Ollie]

1. What's the difference between a 165 and a 166?
166: Air con, 2 toilets, first class each end although one is currently declassified. Limited number of windows able to be opened in coaches. 3 carriages.
165: No air con, however I believe air cooling is starting to be introduced. 1 toilet - not sure if this is changing as the accessible toilets are introduced? first class at one end, this is declassified. Mix of 2 and 3 carriage sets.

4. Will the have Wifi?  230v charging?  USB chargers?   When they arrive with us?   Sometime thereafter?
All have WiFi fitted (provided by Nomad)
No charging facilities.

5. Will they / do they have some form of selective door opening?
No SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)

6. What's the situation on First Class in these trains?
Exists but in many cases declassified, in theory easy enough to use as 1st if the desire is there.

8. I think some of these units have extra luggage space?   Are we getting any of those to help with Southampton cruise traffic?
The 166 tends to have a bit more space for luggage/bikes.

I think I know some of the answers ... but help from someone 'in the know' would be appreciated!

[IndustryInsider]

1. What's the difference between a 165 and a 166?
166: Air con, 2 toilets, first class each end although one is currently declassified. Limited number of windows able to be opened in coaches. 3 carriages.
165: No air con, however I believe air cooling is starting to be introduced. 1 toilet - not sure if this is changing as the accessible toilets are introduced? first class at one end, this is declassified. Mix of 2 and 3 carriage sets.

4. Will the have Wifi?  230v charging?  USB chargers?   When they arrive with us?   Sometime thereafter?
All have WiFi fitted (provided by Nomad)
No charging facilities.

5. Will they / do they have some form of selective door opening?
No SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)

6. What's the situation on First Class in these trains?
Exists but in many cases declassified, in theory easy enough to use as 1st if the desire is there.

8. I think some of these units have extra luggage space?   Are we getting any of those to help with Southampton cruise traffic?
The 166 tends to have a bit more space for luggage/bikes.

I think I know some of the answers ... but help from someone 'in the know' would be appreciated!

Just to add to that there is only one toilet still on the modified 165/1s (which often means none as they are hopelessly unreliable at the moment!), and at least one 165/1 is modified with saloon air cooling with the rest of the fleet to follow.  It has yet to be tested in hot weather! 

[Richard Fairhurst]

166s used to have a First Class “compartment” at each end. One of those has been declassified while the other remains First Class, but the accommodation is identical (four table bays of 2+2 seating). Canny travellers look for the declassified end...

It’s rumoured that 166s have air con but it’s also rumoured that Loch Ness has a monster - never disproved and yet...

[ChrisB]

Thanks for clarifying, both.

[Surrey 455]

My recollections of the 165 / 166s are

• the 165 had 1 toilet per 3 car train, 2 on the 166.
• The 166 has carpet on the floor, 165 has vinyl.
• 165 has openable windows, 166 does not (unless you have a key)

 

[lordgoata]

Most of the openable windows have been retrofitted with square key locks, so now everyone has to suffer from the ridiculous on/off heating and total lack of fresh air...