Making fare rises more acceptable

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A suggestion for making fare increases more acceptable to commuters [here]

Any other suggestions as to how fare increases can be introduced with less adverse publicity?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Sack Chris Grayling.





Sorry, did I really say that out loud? 

[ChrisB]

Base it on inflation 12 months earlier, thus announcement/implementation is once a year, implementation on date in January that December's inflation is announced.

That way, there's only one opportunity for complaints/bad press.

Sacking the SoS will achieve nothing.

[TaplowGreen]

A suggestion for making fare increases more acceptable to commuters [here]

Any other suggestions as to how fare increases can be introduced with less adverse publicity?

Provide a reliable service with something approaching sufficient capacity?

I appreciate that's a radical concept for some to grasp.

[bradshaw]

I feel it needs a co-ordinated campaign by all factions of the railway(NR^» (Network Rail - home page), DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), RDG^‡(resolve)) to present the information more widely. The tremendous amount of upgrade work done over the Christmas period was lost in the fares story, even though that was announced some months ago.
A nationwide advertising campaign to get the information over is probably needed as the media on their own have largely ignored it. On the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) evening news there was no mention of the work at London Bridge, significant though that was.
It is clear that the normal media have little knowledge/interest in the background to this. The railway press have been tearing their hair out on Twitter over the past couple of days, calling for NR, DfT, TOCs and the RDG to put their collective heads above the parapet. Sadly I did not see Mark Carne's interviews about London Bridge; did they reach the south west?

[simonw]

If a consistent, transparent fare system was used across the country, then fares and their increases would be more acceptable.

How can it be right that season tickets for Bristol->Reading, then Reading->London costs more than Bristol->London?

Rail fairs should relate to distance covered, line business and station costs. Large busy stations have higher costs, frequent trains covering a route have a higher cost than one or two trains a day, etc.

The current system is chaotic and not possible to justify!

[ChrisB]

How can it be right that season tickets for Bristol->Reading, then Reading->London costs more than Bristol->London?

Think you just answered your own question....

Large busy stations have higher costs, frequent trains covering a route have a higher cost than one or two trains a day, etc.

Far more intensive service PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - RDG^‡(resolve) than PAD-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains). So a premium charged for the former leg.

[ChrisB]

Can a mod move this somewhere more suitable please?

Seems to have turned into a serious discussion, but stuck in The Lighter Side owing to Graham's first post....

[Tim]

Some honesty in their justification.  The ToCs ought to be saying that they are to reduce subsidy to less than 25% of the industry's costs in line with government policy, rather than that they are to allow us to improve the service. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Can a mod move this somewhere more suitable please?

Seems to have turned into a serious discussion, but stuck in The Lighter Side owing to Graham's first post....

I have now moved this topic, as you suggest, ChrisB - but with the proviso that my own previous post was made purely in the previous context of 'the lighter side'. 

[grahame]

How can it be right that season tickets for Bristol->Reading, then Reading->London costs more than Bristol->London?

Rail fairs should relate to distance covered, line business and station costs. Large busy stations have higher costs, frequent trains covering a route have a higher cost than one or two trains a day, etc.

The current system is chaotic and not possible to justify!

I would suggest that a logical fare for a season ticket might take the form of  ((20p per mile plus £1) x 5 + £2) where the £1 is 50p for each station use and the £2 is the cost of issuing the ticket.   Example of the x5 is weekly.  Mileage based on lowest common mileage between end points; "any reasonable route" to be defined as being quickest between end points or any direct service or shortest distance (perhaps + 3 miles as at present).

A couple of "elephants".   You would need to have a "no boarding at intermediate stations on longer faster routes" type setup to avoid the purchase of Keynsham to Ealing Broadway seasons for Bristol to Paddington, and you might want to have some "high value miles" such as the Severn Tunnel and Royal Albert Bridge.

[simonw]

Looks good!

Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads, current price is £23
for 20p per mile, (((0.20x8)+1)x5 + 2) = £15
for 40p per mile, (((0.40x8)+1)x5 + 2) = £23

Bristol Parkway - London Paddington, current price is £323
for 20p per mile, (((0.20x120)+1)x5 +2) = £127
for 50p per mile, (((0.50x120)+1)x5 +2) = £307

Setting a fixed price per mile for stopping services, and another for inter-city seems a fair and clear way to proceed

[grahame]

Setting a fixed price per mile for stopping services, and another for inter-city seems a fair and clear way to proceed

There are two interesting things that happen when you introduce a stopper / intercity differential in that direction:

1. Split ticketing blossoms!

2. Intercity trains cover the miles faster - so not only are they taking more money per mile, but they're magnifying that effect by covering more miles in the same time.

[broadgage]

Simplify the fares structure in order that the fare payable is firstly determined by how busy the train is expected to be, and secondly is known in advance, there being only three possibilities for any journey.
So that anyone knows, or can easily ascertain, that the fare from ABC to XYZ is £90 in the rush hours, £60 in the off peak, and £20 at extreme off peak times. First class, if provided, to be about £150, £90, and £30.

At present the fare payable is considered to be largely a matter of luck, or perhaps related to the phases of the moon, pub opening hours, and game shooting seasons.

IMPORTANT the above fares are INDICATIVE ONLY, the exact fares would need careful calculation so as to be revenue neutral, but not losing sight of the underlying principle of only three fares.
More capacity is needed in many parts of the network, providing this costs money, and those travelling in the peak need to accept making a contribution to the costs of providing this extra capacity.

Or put another way, peak time customers need to pay towards providing extra rolling stock and for infrastructure upgrades.
Off peak travellers are making use of facilities already existing, and therefore only need pay towards the running costs, fuel, wages, maintenance and so on.

[ellendune]

Of course part of the reason for the complexity in fares is ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services) - the method of sharing out the income from ticket sales between companies.  As an advance ticket is sold for particular trains all the money goes to the companies concerned.  Walk up fares are shared by some formula between all the companies that operate that route.  I am told that some companies try to play the system to their advantage - I cannot believe they would do that though!