Looking at the main root cause of "person hit by train"

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A new thread, without reference to very recent incidents.  Those recent incidents are still under investigation and although the majority of such cases turn out to be suicide, some turn out to be due to other causes.

Yvette Caster writes [here] in The Metro

Why we should all be angry when our trains are delayed by suicides

I was recently late for work because, in the words of a fellow commuter ranting into his phone ‘some tw*t jumped in front of the train’. As train after train was cancelled, and more and more people had to move from one to the next, find other means of transport, and mill about, the general tide of resentment increased. ‘They just don’t think, do they?’ ‘It disrupts so many things.’

[snip]

273 people died in suicides on Britain’s railways between 2016 and 2017. And this is why we should be angry when trains are delayed. We are already failing those 273 people who see death as the only way out of despair.

Tired of waiting for your train? Try waiting months and months for treatment. We should be angry, and annoyed, and vocal. We should be fuming that half of NHS trusts plan to make even more cuts to mental health services which will inevitably push more people teetering on the brink.

Thanks to campaigns run by charities including Mind and Rethink, such as Time To Talk and Heads Together, mental illness is being covered more widely in the media and it’s being more openly discussed than ever before. But what good does it do if all this results in little more than alternative subject matter for middle class dinner party conversations? Are we going to add people with mental illnesses to our smug list of those we are open-minded and tolerant about but do bugger all to improve their lot?

[continues]

[ChrisB]

Anyone ask her how many of those 273 were already under the care of the NHS? No, thought not.

The nature of mental illness means many can't be fully treated and will find ways out of their troubles. Unfortunately, the NHS can't successfully treat everyone & thus ought not to be used in the fashion she does here.

[CyclingSid]

An emotive topic. There are various government documents on the subject, and various mental health trusts have policies to try and minimise risk. Once again it comes down to small numbers in any one area, Local Authority or NHS Trust. The one area that has significant numbers has made an active intervention http://www.bhct.org.uk/wp/category/searches-and-incidents/ as far as I know the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team are still active.

[grahame]

The one area that has significant numbers has made an active intervention http://www.bhct.org.uk/wp/category/searches-and-incidents/ as far as I know the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team are still active.

Their website hasn't been updated for several years and might give the impressions that they've gone away - but they are active on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BeachyHeadChaplaincyTeam and (so far as I can see) on the ground too.

[broadgage]

There will always be those who wish to take their own lives, sometimes for apparently trivial reasons which is an awful waste of a life. Sometimes the decision to end it all is in fact a rational and reasoned decision, if the only alternative is a slow and painful death from an incurable illness.

Suicide on the railway is arguably forming a greater proportion of total suicides because other traditional methods are no longer available or reliable.

The replacement of highly toxic town gas by non poisonous natural gas has eliminated suicide by putting ones head into a turned on but not lit gas oven.
The fitting of catalytic converters to cars has largely eliminated suicide by petrol engine exhaust fumes. It is still possible by use of a vintage vehicle without catalytic converter or by running a petrol driven generator in a confined space, but this is less common.
Dangerous poisons are now much harder to obtain than decades ago. Within living memory, all sorts of very dangerous materials could be purchased from a local chemist, usually for the destruction of vermin.
Dangerous medicines are sold in smaller pack sizes than in the past, and some that could be purchased over the counter now need a prescription. Sleeping tablets in particular are much less available. Such medicines can of course be hoarded until a lethal dose is available, but that takes some time and least deters foolish impulsive suicide.
Firearms are more tightly controlled than ever.
The general use of RCDs has rendered suicide by electrocution unreliable.

Trains meanwhile are often faster and more numerous, and preventing access virtually impossible.

[froome]

As broadgage says, this is not an issue that will disappear, and can be a rational outcome for some (though obviously with desperately adverse affects on others).

I have known 3 people who have committed suicide (none used the railways), have been on one train that had a person jump in front of it, and have been on several trains that have been affected by suicides elsewhere on the tracks. So it seems to me it is a common problem that will continue to happen whatever actions are taken.

I'm not offering any solutions, just commenting on the scale of the issue.

[BerkshireBugsy]

When I read of reports of people ending their lives in this way I do wonder how bad life has to be for them to take this final step. I have often heard people say something like "who in their right mind.." but that in my opinion is the crux of the matter...they often aren't.

When I read of such incidents I am reminded of one Saturday evening in November 2004 when I was sitting in our conservatory  at the house in Thatcham, Berkshire. Whilst it's not unusual to  hear the sound of emergency vehicles travelling at speed along the A4 near where we live what was noticeable on that occasion was the sheer numbers of sirens. We knew that something major had kicked off.

I would suggest that in most train related suicides the number of fatalities is normally very small often limited to the person commuting suicide themselves. I am not suggesting for one moment that others are not affected by the events as those who are killed often leave behind family members and of course it will have an impact on those who have to deal with the aftermath of the event.

On that November evening 6 people lost their lives and another 150 were injured as a result of a high speed train hitting a car parked on the level crossing at Ufton Nervet near us. My Ex actually knew two of the train passengers who lost their lives (from memory a mother and her young daughter). That level crossing has since been replaced by a  bridge but when I travel on that line and see the memorial to those who lost their lives I am conscious of the fact that those passengers on the train affected by the accident were simply int he wrong place at the wrong time.

As others have eloquently said we will never be able to eliminate suicide attempts on the railways and sadly at this time of year incidents seem to be more common post Christmas.

Whilst I know this thread is not referring to specific incidents (with the exception of the one I referred to above) when ever I read of such events my thoughts go out to those directly and indirectly affected by the attempt.

[didcotdean]

I am reminded of this incident at Didcot, where someone with a life history full of troubles thought on the day it was the way out, but was talked out of it by a train driver: http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/14782308.Man_who_nearly_took_his_own_life_at_railway_station_urges_others_to_get_help/

It stays with me as I was on a train held outside Didcot during it.

The 32-year-old has suffered from depression and anxiety on and off for the past 15 years after a childhood of domestic violence in and out of care. But last Thursday he said everything came to a head.
Mr Young, who works at a quarry north of Didcot, said: "There had been an arson attack at work and because I was the last person on the site, I had to be investigated.
"I was so worried because six months into my previous job I was made redundant and I was worried the cycle was going to repeat itself with this one."
Then, just when things looked at their worst, Mr Young's partner broke up with him.
He said: "I came home on the Friday to find she was gone."
On Friday afternoon, Mr Young said he went down to Didcot Parkway Station because he "didn't want to be here anymore".
At the crucial moment, a quick-thinking train driver got out of his vehicle and came to help.
He said: "This train driver came up to me and said 'come on mate lets not do this' and he took me down and onboard a train going to Reading.
"The conductor sat with me the whole journey and made sure I was okay. I just started crying.
"When I got to Reading I told police to arrest me so I would get the help I needed under the Mental Health Act."
Mr Young said the kindness of the three workers restored his faith in society.

[broadgage]

The actions of the staff in the previous post are most commendable and have almost certainly genuinely saved a life, since the man sounds a bit more optimistic and is unlikely to try again.

In a regrettable number of other cases, the victim unfortunately is still determined to end it all and tries again until they succeed.

BTW^▸ (by the way), when I was young, a neighbour tried to kill themselves with town gas but failed because the coin operated gas meter ran out. That however was not truly saving a life, they took their life with sleeping tablets in the end.

Returning to the present day, there seem to a lot of "accidents" with shotguns among farmers suffering financial troubles. I cant help feeling that some of these are in fact suicide and that the coroner is being kind to the families. (In case of an accident, with a gun or otherwise, the family may benefit from any life insurance that may exist. Insurance wont pay out in case of suicide)

[CyclingSid]

The coroner's role in inquests of possible suicide is a very sensitive one, as has been suggested. Considerable effort is made to to try and understand the state of mind of the person. This is tempered by considerable thought for the personal, social and cultural feelings of those involved. All this takes time, the current average time between occurrence and registration (conclusion of inquest) is about 150 days; https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/suicidesintheunitedkingdomreferencetables (Table 18). The two classification codes relevant to this discussion are Transport accidents V05 Pedestrian injured in collision with railway train or railway vehicle [assuming there is no intention], or X81 Intentional self-harm by jumping or lying before moving object From ICD-10 http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/XX. There are also checks within the overall coronial and Office of National Statistics to try and sure a balanced & unbiased approach is maintained.

[Chris from Nailsea]

(Insurance wont pay out in case of suicide)

That's generally only true for the first year (sometimes two years) after the life insurance policy is started - unless the underwriters of a particular policy impose a more specific suicide exclusion clause.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From Essex Live:

Essex pastor reveals what it is like to save someone's life

Phil has shared some of his experiences patrolling Essex's streets

"Two months ago we spoke to someone who told us he was contemplating heading towards the railway to kill himself - we have since seen him walking in the high street."

This is the story of street pastor Phil Norton, 53, who dedicates most of his life helping people who are thinking about taking their own lives. Phil, who spends busy weekend nights patrolling the streets of Billericay, has worked as a street pastor for five and a half years.

Here, he shares the incredible story of the day he met a young man who was on his way to kill himself, but was saved, after the street pastors stepped in.

"We dealt with a young man who came to our hub on Billericay High Street after he had been kicked out of his home and was down on his luck," Phil explained. "We saw him walking down the high street looking around and we shouted out to him asking him whether he was okay. He was walking towards the railway station and said he was contemplating going down there to kill himself."

After speaking to the man, Phil and his team managed to convince him to come inside to their hub. He continued: "We encouraged him to come into our hub and have a hot drink. After talking to us he started to realise the he had some good things going on in his life. 45 minutes later he left us all having had some toast and been warmed up."

And to Phil's delight, they have since seen him walking down the same street since. "He recognises us and we always have a good chat."

As well as Phil's street pastor scheme, a new rail pastor scheme will soon be patrolling part of Greater Anglia's network in Essex.

16 volunteers, including Phil, have undergone training to work as rail pastors with the aim to provide support to passengers at stations and on trains between Shenfield and Colchester.

Phil now works full-time as the Essex representative of the Ascension Trust who have successfully implemented rail pastor schemes in five locations around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

Phil said: "There will be 16 of us who are trained as rail pastors engaging with people and spotting people who may be vulnerable and contemplating taking their own life. It is a very rewarding thing to do. Once you go home and you debrief for the night you think that is a very good thing you have just done."

Jay Thompson, Head of safety, security at sustainability at Greater Anglia, said: "We are very pleased to welcome rail pastors to our network in Essex. We already work closely with the British Transport Police, Samaritans and land sheriffs, and we believe the rail pastors will complement their great work. We fully support any initiative which aims to keep people safe on our rail network, and we are extremely grateful to the rail pastors for volunteering their time to care for others."

[Tim]

Suicide on the railway is arguably forming a greater proportion of total suicides because other traditional methods are no longer available or reliable.

I don't doubt that there is some truth in that.  But I seem to recall that when we switched to natural gas the total number of suicides went significantly down.  I am not an expert on MH, but it seems that there are many people who are predisposed to suicide (struggling with depression and the like) who experience deep despair and a desire to end their life as a transient, and perhaps only occasional, emotion.  If they are denied a conveniently available route to kill themselves whist in that state (or if they are fortunate to get some help from a professional or bystander at the moment which interrupts their plans) the moment may pass and the life will be saved.   I think that is completely different to people who have decided that they want to die as a rational, settled dissuasion.   This second group of people are not mentally ill.

The good news (if we can find good news in a sad topic) seems to be that making suicide just a little bit harder can save lives.   I would have thought that better trackside fencing, closing level crossing, removing convenient ramps at the end of platforms (and maybe even installing those rubber trip hazards on them)  would all help to bring the numbers down and I would hope that NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) has collected some data to refute or confirm this.

[Bmblbzzz]

Suicide on the railway is arguably forming a greater proportion of total suicides because other traditional methods are no longer available or reliable.

I don't doubt that there is some truth in that.  But I seem to recall that when we switched to natural gas the total number of suicides went significantly down.  I am not an expert on MH, but it seems that there are many people who are predisposed to suicide (struggling with depression and the like) who experience deep despair and a desire to end their life as a transient, and perhaps only occasional, emotion.  If they are denied a conveniently available route to kill themselves whist in that state (or if they are fortunate to get some help from a professional or bystander at the moment which interrupts their plans) the moment may pass and the life will be saved.   I think that is completely different to people who have decided that they want to die as a rational, settled dissuasion.   This second group of people are not mentally ill.

The good news (if we can find good news in a sad topic) seems to be that making suicide just a little bit harder can save lives.   I would have thought that better trackside fencing, closing level crossing, removing convenient ramps at the end of platforms (and maybe even installing those rubber trip hazards on them)  would all help to bring the numbers down and I would hope that NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) has collected some data to refute or confirm this.

As some sort of evidence towards this, I think it's the case that in the USA the most common situation of death by firearms is suicide.

[WelshBluebird]

Anyone ask her how many of those 273 were already under the care of the NHS? No, thought not.

The nature of mental illness means many can't be fully treated and will find ways out of their troubles. Unfortunately, the NHS can't successfully treat everyone & thus ought not to be used in the fashion she does here.

The thing is, it isn't just the NHS that can help. All of us can in our own way.
Talk to your friends, be there if they seem a bit down. Believe me (coming from "the other side"), it helps.
There is a reason why suicide is the biggest killer of men under 50 in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) - too often men find they can't talk about feelings / emotions with friends, that they just need to "man up" - but that exact attitude is what ends with men killing themselves.