Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here]. Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
May 25, 2018, 08:25:13 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[250] GWR Overcrowding
[67] Helston Railway - line re-opening plans
[20] Where were Finn and I today, 23rd May 2018?
[18] Where did Phil's latest Madventure take him to?
[15] Readability of rail information
[14] SWR special offers
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
Author Topic: The End Of Diesel Traction In The UK?  (Read 1793 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 20351



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 05:43:36 am »

BoJo and JoJo will enter the language like BoBo and CoCo.

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?
Logged

TransWilts Rail - Linking North to West and South 9 times a day. [see here]
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 20351



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2018, 06:55:10 am »

Taking a step back on both this thread and the hydrogen trains thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19251 , it strikes me that the drive on all trains these days is electrical - the last trains which did not have electric motors were the bubble cars, I suspect.  I am subject to correction.

But - if I am right - are we not looking purely at how we get electricity to those motors, rather than at whether they are "electric" trains or not.  And then we have options ...
1. Continuous connection
2. Intermittent connection with short term storage and release / conversion
3. Occasional linkage in with signifiant storage and release / conversion
4. Local environmental sourcing of energy, probably with local storage

What do I mean by no. 4 - Solar panels on the roof and the side of the train, and/or wind turbines that they put up like pantographs at turn around stations and when parked up between duties / overnight, with battery and/or capacitor stores.   You could add a pantograph, an ability to run a cable across the car park to the car charging point ... and a little (max speed 30 m.p.h.) get-out-of-trouble diesel engine if all else fails.   
Logged

TransWilts Rail - Linking North to West and South 9 times a day. [see here]
ellendune
TransWilts Member
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2837


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2018, 08:00:27 am »

Taking a step back on both this thread and the hydrogen trains thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19251 , it strikes me that the drive on all trains these days is electrical - the last trains which did not have electric motors were the bubble cars, I suspect.  I am subject to correction.  

I am pretty sure all the 14x and 15x units have mechanical transmission,
Logged
mjones
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 302


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2018, 08:10:40 am »

Yes, automatic gearboxes with hydraulic transmission are used in most current DMUs, including 180s, even though IIRC they use the same engines as the Voyagers, which do have electric transmission.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 20351



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2018, 08:13:28 am »

Yes, automatic gearboxes with hydraulic transmission are used in most current DMUs, including 180s, even though IIRC they use the same engines as the Voyagers, which do have electric transmission.

Ah - OK - corrected then - but perhaps not a show-stopper to some of the principles / ideas
Logged

TransWilts Rail - Linking North to West and South 9 times a day. [see here]
mjones
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 302


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 08:31:26 am »

Indeed. There are retrofit hybrid traction systems being developed for buses, so this sort of thing may become an option for the more recent DMUs at some point.
Logged
onthecushions
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 569


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 10:47:13 am »



You can still use Voith hydraulic transmissions with electrical power - you just need to drive the pump electrically rather than with an IC engine.

You can also run diesel engines on other fuels, such as CNG, with c8% added diesel to give ignition.

Or you can learn how to electrify economically.

OTC

Logged
Four Track, Now!
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3570


I know nothing. Really.


View Profile Email
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2018, 10:59:36 am »

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?

I think that JoJo and BoJo will be wind-up trains.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 02:31:52 pm by Four Track, Now! » Logged

Now, please!
Western Pathfinder
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 662



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2018, 12:48:18 pm »

Voith hydraulich transmission units are time proved units
After all I've had one fitted since the 1960s 😁
Logged
Red Squirrel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1893


The first town plan. An idea that had legs.


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2018, 02:39:37 pm »



You can still use Voith hydraulic transmissions with electrical power - you just need to drive the pump electrically rather than with an IC engine.

You can also run diesel engines on other fuels, such as CNG, with c8% added diesel to give ignition.

Or you can learn how to electrify economically.

OTC



Electrically-pumped hydraulic transmission is right up there with electro-steam in terms of efficiency and apparent logic. Which isn't to say there'd never be a good reason to do it, but it's hard to see what it might be!
Logged

If I had to show a foreigner one English city, and one only, to give him a balanced idea of English architecture, I should take him... to Bristol, which has developed in all directions and where nearly everything has happened. - Sir John Summerson
Bmblbzzz
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1371


View Profile Email
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2018, 03:14:08 pm »

A JoJo has two bogies each with 10 powered axles on each side?

I think that JoJo and BoJo will be wind-up trains.
JoJo winds up the passengers, BoJo does the same but only past Calais.
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
onthecushions
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 569


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2018, 08:19:40 pm »

Electrically-pumped hydraulic transmission is right up there with electro-steam in terms of efficiency and apparent logic. Which isn't to say there'd never be a good reason to do it, but it's hard to see what it might be!

The hydraulic pump doesn't know what's driving it; its power absorbed depends on its impeller speed and Q/H operating point. An inverter driven motor must be more agile than a diesel engine and might well have advantages over a direct motor drive to the bogie gearbox. It's still probably too complex to be a first choice, though.

OTC
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants