Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 23:35 28 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaways hit by travel disruption
- Where Baltimore bridge investigation goes now
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1917)
Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore closed (link)

Train RunningCancelled
22:30 Gatwick Airport to Reading
Short Run
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
23:04 Reading to Bedwyn
23:17 Bedwyn to Reading
Delayed
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 23:51:19 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[98] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[97] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[86] Return of the BRUTE?
[74] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[23] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: C7 Restriction Code  (Read 7143 times)
Adelante_CCT
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1314



View Profile
« on: February 13, 2018, 20:19:32 »

Does anyone have a link to the current C7 restrictions, the national rail page here says to have been updated on the 8th January, which is incorrect as it still has 2017 services. ie: the 09:12 from Reading no longer exists / has been retimed and the 16:36 from Paddington is now 16:33 etc.

Using the National Rail planner is also of no use. Looking for an off-peak single fare from Paddington to Reading appears to give correct info* with 'fast' services unavailable and slow/semi-fast services able to be purchased. However by doing a search for an off-peak day return from Reading, shows some anomalies such as not being able to catch the 16:36 to Didcot, but being allowed to travel on the 17:00 to Bristol  Undecided


* I say correct info, but some 'fast' services appear to say you can use a Thames Branches Day Ranger ticket on them?
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 20:48:26 »

BRFares has the same version, with this at its foot: "Fare details correct as of 2 January 2018. Information copyright Rail Settlement Plan Ltd.; reproduced under Creative Commons Licence CC BY 2.0". That could mean they've not been to look since then, or that the RSP have not put it onto their data feed. I guess that with BRFares you could ask them.
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 21:23:43 »

That restriction code is not alone in being incorrectly implemented due to timetable changes for certain AM and PM fast trains into and out of Paddington.

One example I'm aware of is the 1833 services to Exeter St Davids. This used to be 1835

This train shouldn't allow Off Peak travel where the origin is Paddington, either as a Single, or the Return portion of a ticket from Didcot, Oxford, Newbury Reading etc. However, the restriction code text hasn't been updated, in written or electronic form. Hence them being incorrectly shown on booking engines as valid departures with Off Peak and Off Peak Day tickets.

It's an error in the customers favour, but I've heard tell of TMs(resolve) trying to excess fare people who have bought Off Peak tickets where the booking engine has erroneously allowed then to select the 1833 as their Paddington departure.

The data for booking engines has to be broken down into chunks of minutes to disallow travel on fast trains to Thames Valley destinations. There can't be a blanket period applied as this will include the slow services on which the tickets are valid. So to disallow travel on the 1833 the booking engines should be programmed to exclude departures between 1833-1834. At the moment they are programmed to exclude 1835-1836 which reflects the previous timing of the 1833 (formerly 1835) to Exeter St Davids.

Expect a fix. I won't say soon as this is the railways we are talking about! Until it is fixed you can travel legitimately on the 1833 with an Off Peak ticket if you've booked online and been allowed to select that service. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 21:33:24 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 22:32:40 »

BRFares has the same version, with this at its foot: "Fare details correct as of 2 January 2018. Information copyright Rail Settlement Plan Ltd.; reproduced under Creative Commons Licence CC BY 2.0". That could mean they've not been to look since then, or that the RSP have not put it onto their data feed. I guess that with BRFares you could ask them.

That's a red herring, sorry about that. If you look at the fine-grained instructions for booking engines (the "unpublished restrictions") there are two sets defined: 2/1/2018 to 3/3/2018 and 3/9/2018 to 22/12/2108. In both there is a "not valid" interval of 16:30-16:40 departing Paddington. What happens from March to September? Presumably that will be added in a later update (perhaps the one of 8th January?).
Logged
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 22:51:47 »

BRFares has the same version, with this at its foot: "Fare details correct as of 2 January 2018. Information copyright Rail Settlement Plan Ltd.; reproduced under Creative Commons Licence CC BY 2.0". That could mean they've not been to look since then, or that the RSP have not put it onto their data feed. I guess that with BRFares you could ask them.

That's a red herring, sorry about that. If you look at the fine-grained instructions for booking engines (the "unpublished restrictions") there are two sets defined: 2/1/2018 to 3/3/2018 and 3/9/2018 to 22/12/2108. In both there is a "not valid" interval of 16:30-16:40 departing Paddington. What happens from March to September? Presumably that will be added in a later update (perhaps the one of 8th January?).

This was raised in another thread as the booking software was selling off peak for everything, even the most peak of peak services!
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
1st fan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 402


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 22:45:02 »

That restriction code is not alone in being incorrectly implemented due to timetable changes for certain AM and PM fast trains into and out of Paddington.

One example I'm aware of is the 1833 services to Exeter St Davids. This used to be 1835

This train shouldn't allow Off Peak travel where the origin is Paddington, either as a Single, or the Return portion of a ticket from Didcot, Oxford, Newbury Reading etc. However, the restriction code text hasn't been updated, in written or electronic form. Hence them being incorrectly shown on booking engines as valid departures with Off Peak and Off Peak Day tickets.

It's an error in the customers favour, but I've heard tell of TMs(resolve) trying to excess fare people who have bought Off Peak tickets where the booking engine has erroneously allowed then to select the 1833 as their Paddington departure.

The data for booking engines has to be broken down into chunks of minutes to disallow travel on fast trains to Thames Valley destinations. There can't be a blanket period applied as this will include the slow services on which the tickets are valid. So to disallow travel on the 1833 the booking engines should be programmed to exclude departures between 1833-1834. At the moment they are programmed to exclude 1835-1836 which reflects the previous timing of the 1833 (formerly 1835) to Exeter St Davids.

Expect a fix. I won't say soon as this is the railways we are talking about! Until it is fixed you can travel legitimately on the 1833 with an Off Peak ticket if you've booked online and been allowed to select that service. 
I had a question about the easement of restriction on the use of an annual gold card from Moreton in Marsh. After calling National Rail Enquiries they eventually admitted that they had no copy of the fare manual electronic or written. Therefore they couldn't tell me which train the easement was on. I spoke to the FGW (First Great Western) customer service team and they did have access to the Fares Manual. Sadly the manual hadn't been updated to reflect the timetable and the train listed was no longer running. They told me that I'd be fine on the last train before 10am.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 22:56:40 »

BRFares has the same version, with this at its foot: "Fare details correct as of 2 January 2018. Information copyright Rail Settlement Plan Ltd.; reproduced under Creative Commons Licence CC BY 2.0". That could mean they've not been to look since then, or that the RSP have not put it onto their data feed. I guess that with BRFares you could ask them.

That's a red herring, sorry about that. If you look at the fine-grained instructions for booking engines (the "unpublished restrictions") there are two sets defined: 2/1/2018 to 3/3/2018 and 3/9/2018 to 22/12/2108. In both there is a "not valid" interval of 16:30-16:40 departing Paddington. What happens from March to September? Presumably that will be added in a later update (perhaps the one of 8th January?).

This was raised in another thread as the booking software was selling off peak for everything, even the most peak of peak services!

I'm not sure what "this" refers to there. The fuller (BRFares) version I was referring to suggests that the booking engines should be right, having been given the updated restriction data in time. It's the printed (human-readable) list of departures by time that is based on the old timetable.
Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 12:54:35 »

I keep wondering if "ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE" can sort out fares conundrums!

Human Intelligence doesn't seem to have got very far!

However, I have this nagging feeling it might make it worse.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2019, 21:09:31 »

And here's another thing about restriction code C7 - which I'm surprised not to have come across, but will on Thursday. I'm going to near Redbridge with my sister (for a family funeral), late enough that it's worth considering an off-peak travelcard return, and looking at the choice of peak trains back. That ticket is code C7, and so is one from Wokingham with or without the travelcard.

OK so far, but the journey planners tell me I can't get back from Reading to Wokingham on any train between 16:30 and 20:00, except the 18:52 (an extra, to Staines). The unpublished restrictions explain why, with a list of time slots "not valid to depart reading by any TOC (Train Operating Company)". Now I assume these are meant to define trains starting from Paddington and going onwards, but as worded they catch everything and fall on top of all the clockface Waterloo and North Downs services. The only dodgy-looking part of that unpublished restriction list is that it is all headed "outward travel", but I'm not sure whether that heading represents the data feed contents.

I read elsewhere that this has been the case for a long time (give or take whether the times always coincided with those for Wokingham). But while SWR» (South Western Railway - about) do have a set of words saying what off-peak means at Waterloo, I can't see anything from SWR or GWR (Great Western Railway) about Paddington other than "ask the journey planner". So are there any public words that can take precedence over this coding error (if that's what it is)?
Logged
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1918


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 07:22:05 »

I have been told by station staff at Reading that there is no peak restriction in the afternoon from Waterloo to Reading. On what basis and how far that stretches I do not know.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 09:54:47 »

I have been told by station staff at Reading that there is no peak restriction in the afternoon from Waterloo to Reading. On what basis and how far that stretches I do not know.

SWR» (South Western Railway - about) do give clear details (though of course ticket restrictions could say something else - I've not searched for them!). Provided you use the sitemap (otherwise you get a 404), you'll be told that for off-peak there are only restrictions on 1st class, while for super off-peak there is a big barred period:

    Between 16:00 and 18:30 from London Waterloo.
    Between 16:03 and 18:35 from Vauxhall.
    Between 16:09 and 18:40 from Clapham Junction.
 
But I was complaining about travel back from Paddington via Reading on an off-peak ticket that bars (mostly) fast trains and then accidentally, it seems, bars all trains onward to Wokingham.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2019, 23:28:38 »

Just a couple of points about that journey last month to the east side of London, and returning in the peak with an off-peak ticket. I had no problems with the imaginary restriction on trains back to Wokingham, indeed no-one (and no barrier) looked at my tickets at all.

We returned just before 5 pm, so the stampede for the train wasn't so bad and we got seats easily enough. But obviously you need to be willing and able to walk briskly to the front half of the train to do that. One result of the new semifast EMU (Electric Multiple Unit) service is that there are more such trains on offer than there were, and longer too. I guess if you need (and have) more time, you might prefer to use a slow train.

It also helped that my sister, buying her ticket in person at Reading, was given a leaflet listing the evening peak trains available with off-peak tickets. I looked for that information on the gwr.com site, and found nothing of the kind. Why not? Is the list somewhere I've not looked, or are leaflets put out somewhere to pick up? (Though where would be the obvious place?) What the site does say is:
Quote
The times when you may use your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which tickets are valid for your journey.
How quaint!

I've attached a scan in case you've never been offered one. Useful, huh? (But why does no-one date such things any more?)
Logged
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1918


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2019, 07:34:45 »

The Reading leaflet is very useful. I also have looked on-line and not found a copy. You would think it was the sort of thing they would make more accessible.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2019, 09:33:11 »

The Reading leaflet is very useful. I also have looked on-line and not found a copy. You would think it was the sort of thing they would make more accessible.

It's not Reading-specific, so it should be available at any ticket office that can sell you an off-peak return to Paddington. I guess that would be all GWR (Great Western Railway) ticket offices - and a lot of others too; after all I started at an SWR» (South Western Railway - about) station.
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2019, 11:01:25 »

The leaflet refers to "Off Peak Day". Ticket Restriction C7 is one that is mostly (if not only) applied to Day ticket types.

The leaflet is not suitable information for the trains you can use on Off Peak (period) Returns across the GWR (Great Western Railway) network. It would hinder rather than help.

And the leaflet isn't the correct information if your Off Peak Day Return from/via Reading is to many stations beyond Paddington with a cross-London transfer. It should make it clear that it applies to return journeys that start at Paddington.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 11:27:16 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page